| Poll |
| Should the TS difference rule go? |
| Yes! Stunties need fair odds more than anyone else. |
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19% |
[ 24 ] |
| No, all stunties should be relegated to Stunty Leeg. |
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11% |
[ 14 ] |
| I don't care. |
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17% |
[ 21 ] |
| This poll is stupid. |
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51% |
[ 63 ] |
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| Total Votes : 122 |
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Skrofler
Joined: Aug 16, 2005
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 Posted:
Sep 17, 2005 - 15:20 |
 
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| OverDose wrote: | | Skrofler wrote: | | Just because you can't handle a goblin team doesn't mean that anyone with a half a brain couldn't. |
Says the guy whose goblin team is going 4/1/5. I challenge your Nobbla-free goblin team to a match against my halflings then : )
I just don't think that a goblin team is much harder to coach than halflings. |
Nobody said it was.
And my last 10 games (versus pretty difficult opposition) goes a short way to tell of my experience from hundreds of stunty matches.
My point to this was that I, just as any experienced coach, don't need anybody to tell me what games I have a chance of winning. |
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freak_in_a_frock
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 17, 2005 - 15:33 |
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Try calming down a bit and maybe people will listen to you more.
The reason that the TS rule was brought in, in the first place, was because a certain caoch was playing her high TR dwarf team against any noob stunty team that she could find. The results obviously were very one sided resulting in her dwarf team becoming one of the highest ranked team on fumbbl. This rule stops that from happening.
I personally think that you are a bit niave if you think it hurts stunties more than it helps them. Ok so most stunty games mean you have to play against handicaps, but the flip side of this is that you will be playing a team with less skills, making it a much fairer game.
Now please don't start abusing me, i have more stunty experience than almost any coach on fumbbl so i think i have a right to speak. |
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vanGorn
Joined: Feb 24, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 17, 2005 - 15:41 |
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I prefer Fungus over Nobbla. He is chaeper and boosts the TS even more. |
_________________
Gimme a pint of fungus beer!
Then we will climb the ladder.
 |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 17, 2005 - 16:01 |
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I say no and I think your point of view is just one-sided.
you say you can decided if playing under 40str with gobs is fine? therefore you ask to remove the rule.
ok but it means I can pray on low str gobbos with my dwarves.
I am against the remove of the limitation. You should pass the TR 200 cap were the +/-40 str limit rule is removed. |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 17, 2005 - 16:07 |
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| Skrofler wrote: | | brownrob wrote: | tbh... if your playing stunties and worrying about TS, you are playing them for the wrong reasons...  |
Please explain. What are the right reasons? |
I play Goblins for a bit of fun, and i fully expect to lose even though im an above average coach, but if i win its a bonus |
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Skrofler
Joined: Aug 16, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2005 - 00:41 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | | ok but it means I can pray on low str gobbos with my dwarves. |
Well, you couldn't pray on my gobbos. What matches other coaches decide to play is beyond my control and interest.
| brownrob wrote: | | I play Goblins for a bit of fun, and i fully expect to lose even though im an above average coach, but if i win its a bonus |
Well, that's exactly the same reasons I (or any other coach I suppose) have. That doesn't mean that I will endorse house rules if they work against me. Sure, stunties are fun because they're challenging but I wouldn't play if the chance of winning was zero so naturally there's a limit to the punishment I am willing to take. |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2005 - 00:53 |
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| Skrofler wrote: | | What matches other coaches decide to play is beyond my control and interest. |
But not beyond mine, nor that of the other admins, which is what matters here.
In either case, I believe that stunties get a good deal out of this one. Either they play versus a vastly stronger team and get no handicaps, or they play vs an only slightly stronger team and give away a couple of handicaps. Handicaps usually don't even make a difference, so in my opinion coaching stunties is easier now.
Yes, Stunties are outside the norm due to their (often very large) TR to TS differential. Discriminated? Possibly, but not negatively as you believe. And I don't think there's much of a chance to see it changed. |
_________________
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day; set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. |
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Skrofler
Joined: Aug 16, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2005 - 00:55 |
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| freak_in_a_frock wrote: | | Try calming down a bit and maybe people will listen to you more. |
?
When did I come off as upset?
I am just being honest here. No sarcasm intended.
| freak_in_a_frock wrote: | | The reason that the TS rule was brought in, in the first place, was because a certain caoch was playing her high TR dwarf team against any noob stunty team that she could find. The results obviously were very one sided resulting in her dwarf team becoming one of the highest ranked team on fumbbl. This rule stops that from happening. |
I got that.
| freak_in_a_frock wrote: | | I personally think that you are a bit niave if you think it hurts stunties more than it helps them. Ok so most stunty games mean you have to play against handicaps, but the flip side of this is that you will be playing a team with less skills, making it a much fairer game. |
I few skills more or less won't do me much good if my star thrower turns up with the flu or I lose 2 re-rolls. I don't think that's a good trade.
The most important point to all of this, which nobody seems to get, is that it is impossible for a my team to be helped by this rule since I would still be free to choose my opponents even if the restriction was lifted. The restriction can only make my position weaker.
| freak_in_a_frock wrote: | | Now please don't start abusing me, i have more stunty experience than almost any coach on fumbbl so i think i have a right to speak. |
I have never tried to gag anybody. Nor do I intentively reply disrespectful to anyone who didn't first call me a witless ape or any equivalent thereof. |
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2005 - 01:01 |
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I don't quite understand your argument. Your team is about 156/124. Why can't you play other TR 156-sh teams? Their TS should be within the 40 point limit almost all the time. Are you saying that then the TS comparison isn't fair in that case? Well isn't that the whole theory behind stunties? Their TS (ability to win a game, roughly) should be lower than a 'real' team of equal TR?
You mean that you think you should be able to play up to say, TR 180/180 team for example? The limit is in Ranked Division only, and was put there for one reason: otherwise it is too easy for uncrupulous coaches drooling after high CR to win and win and win just by playing down at lower TR/TS levels.
I dunno, it's just that you seem to be rather belligerent about this whole thing, and I still can't see how your goblins are unable to play even TR games within the 40 TS limit for Ranked division. You could also always make a gobbo/fling team in [U] or [L] and test your mettle there, no TS limits applied.
Also, what do you think about what Freak_in_a_frock wrote? I think he has a good point - handicaps vs TR 120 teams will still give skilled up gobbos an advantage since they won't have many skills themselves (nor RR for that matter) most likely...
EDIT: Aha! You were responding even as I wrote! Never mind that last bit then!  |
_________________
***Did you know? 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot? |
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Skrofler
Joined: Aug 16, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2005 - 01:05 |
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| Mezir wrote: | | Skrofler wrote: | | What matches other coaches decide to play is beyond my control and interest. |
But not beyond mine, nor that of the other admins, which is what matters here. |
Yeah, that's obvious. Still worth the discussion though.
So how come that cherrypickers are so disliked as to invoke restrictions like these? I can see it has something to do with ranking but there would be no prestige in gaining ranks on the grounds of being a coward. How much respect would such a person really earn?
Here's some constructivism then. How about enforcing a restriction against playing a certain quota, let's say 75%, of your games versus lower rated teams? |
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2005 - 01:12 |
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I still don't quite get it. What exactly do you feel your disadvantage is again? That your goblins, when they are, for example, 201/150, can't play other TR 210/210 teams? You do realize that, for all its flaws, the TS forumla does give a rather accurate predictor of a team's relative ability to win its next game...I don't see how facing a TR even matchup at minus 60 TS points will be an advantage for you? The team will massively outclass you by that point don't you think? Giving up no handicaps against an all Block/Tackle Orc team is going to be a pretty uneven proposition...
I'd understand if you wanted your 210/150 team to be able to play another 150/150 team, for even ground TS wise - but they already can, and this seems to be what you are complaining about?
I guess I just don't understand what the issue is, or why exactly you think the 40TS limit somehow puts you at disadvantage bu forcing you to not play powerhouse teams that are almost certain to bowl you over? |
_________________
***Did you know? 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot? |
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Skrofler
Joined: Aug 16, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2005 - 01:17 |
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| CorporateSlave3 wrote: | | I don't quite understand your argument. Your team is about 156/124. Why can't you play other TR 156-sh teams? Their TS should be within the 40 point limit almost all the time. |
Almost doesn't cut it. Besides that I would be even worse off with a few more serious injuries lowering my TS even more. In such a case I would really not like to give away handicap. That's just too unfair for me and unfairness doesn't belong in games.
| CorporateSlave3 wrote: | | Are you saying that then the TS comparison isn't fair in that case? Well isn't that the whole theory behind stunties? Their TS (ability to win a game, roughly) should be lower than a 'real' team of equal TR? |
Well, that's another side of this problem. I would definately win most games if I only played equal TS teams (ergo: -30 TR) if I didn't have to give handicap. So, no, TS does not accurately represent my chance of winning.
| CorporateSlave3 wrote: | | I guess I just don't understand what the issue is, or why exactly you think the 40TS limit somehow puts you at disadvantage bu forcing you to not play powerhouse teams that are almost certain to bowl you over? |
See my reply to Freak's post on this. What we should be able to agree on is that the restriction can't possibly be to my advantage. |
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Alanir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2005 - 02:00 |
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I don't really understand why you just wouldn't play unranked. Ranked is supposed to be a competitive division. If you're looking to play against equal TR opponents, and not look at TS, just play the gobbos in unranked instead. The only difference being that your coach rating does not change, and you can't use the team in Fumbbl Cup as far as I can see. Don't play against experimental/stunty teams. I would like to hear why you do not want to play unranked. |
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djbigjake
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2005 - 02:09 |
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| Skrofler wrote: | | brownrob wrote: | | tbh... if your playing stunties and worrying about TS, you are playing them for the wrong reasons... |
Please explain. What are the right reasons? |
Mayhem. Carnage. Destruction.
Trying very hard to throw a goblin at the ballcarrier until both are dead.
Fouling without feeling like a bad person.
To see how many squares on the field you can cover in the death smears.
Watching your opponent blame all of your dicerolls for any little success you might have. |
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MixX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2005 - 02:27 |
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| Quote: |
Watching your opponent blame all of your dicerolls for any little success you might have.
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Hehe that happens everywhere not just in Stunty! Earlier today I had a coach claiming I was "extremely lucky" for making a 3+ pickup (with reroll) a 4+ pass (with Pass) and a 2+ catch (with Catch)... heh!
I would say the right reason to play stunty leeg is for the craziness.. anything can happen, and it usually doesn´t matter. |
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