Mimashi
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
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 Posted:
Sep 22, 2005 - 09:31 |
 
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First post/first topic here so maybe congratulations for this terrific site are due... hope to have a great time here!
Anyway, since I like to give a bad first impression of myself, here I am to talk about the Dirty Player skill.
Yesterday, I did my first ranked match.. I won it mainly because I got the ref, and at the end of the match, my opponent explained me that there are many coaches that will not play me if I have one or more dirty players in my team.
Now. I can understand not trusting people that have 3-4 DP in their teams.. but I have always thought that having a DP does not mean that you are a bloodthirsty basher. Actually, the REAL worth of your first Dirty Player has always been (in my opinion) a defensive one.
The other coach is less likely to foul as long as you have the dirty player standing, even if he has a DP himself. Also he will probably try to put him out of the play, diverting the attention of his hitters from the ball carrier.
When the other coach gets the ref, a DP can be invaluable! Since every foul he does actually gets him the "I Got My Eye On You" you can actually counter-foul with your DP with a 1 in 6 chance of being ejected.
Notice that i am not talking about using him to foul Claw/Razor Sharp Claws combos and other DP because is too obvious..
So, as i see it, DP can be used defensively.
After all, if you have a prone wardancer nearby, you can always let him be...
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Wizard
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
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Sep 22, 2005 - 09:47 |
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The unfortunate reality of the ranked league is that you exclude about 50% of the player base that will play you if you choose a DP.
The argument is that the teams/players that the time invested in is not worth losing to a DP. Most of the coaches on this site fail to realise that this game was designed with a rotating roster in mind and love there players to much to play against a DP.
You will find over the course of your stay 3 types of coaches - those that take DP and love to play against it (Thrall, Wuhan etc.), those that do not take DP and do not foul and will not play your teams with DP and those that take DP but still refuse to play teams with DP caliming it for insurance incase you foul (i cant remeber who did that, i thought it was classic).
Also, forget about playing most AV7 teams with a DP
In short, the guys/gals in this league hate to lose there precious players and wont risk it. I have a Woodelf team with 2 dp's and i cant get them a game most nights 
So be warned - taking DP will lower your chance to play, but will increase your chance to win. |
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"As long as one person lives in darkness then it seems to be a responsibility to tell other people." |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Sep 22, 2005 - 09:52 |
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If you get a dp on the team for defensive purposes only it would help you immensely to clearly state your intentions with him in the teams bio.
I am one of the coaches with an unhealthy emotional attachment to his pixels (  ) and normally I will not play against teams with dp's unless such a disclaimer is in the bio.
In the end it's all up to you. Whatever style you prefer, you can always get games. I would imagine the 2 dp elf team metioned above gets plenty of offers from other teams witht he same setup, though whether these offers are accepted is another matter  .
If you really don't intend to foul a lot getting a dp is a waste of a skill roll. |
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Proud owner of three completed Ranked grids, sadly lacking in having a life. |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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Sep 22, 2005 - 09:59 |
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Mimashi: It sounds like a valid tactic to me.
However, all the fun matches are being played in the [U]nranked division, be they tournament play or casual play. In [R]anked, a lot of people take the game seriously and value their players' lives almost as much as their own. Thus, you won't be getting many games in [R]anked if you take a DP. "It is a defensive measure to avoid teams with DP." Blah, you're just a bunch of chickens. *pun intended*
Come on over to [U]nranked tournaments to see what BB is really all about.  |
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ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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Sep 22, 2005 - 10:17 |
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I'll give you a game...
Who needs DP's to foul  |
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Tommi
Joined: May 17, 2004
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Sep 22, 2005 - 10:40 |
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DP is a powerfull skill, it's obvious first choice for any team for a lineman, the cheaper the player, the better. It can easily double the casualty rate for a TR < 170 team. The cheap lineman becomes suddenly the most important player in the team.
I think it's overpowered. Why to play anyone who has nuclear strike in his arsenal? I rather play opponents with conventional weapons, the game is more balanced and enjoyable. With DP on the field, the game is easily centered around that player, as stated in the first post,
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Also he will probably try to put him out of the play, diverting the attention of his hitters from the ball carrier.
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isnt that silly? The player with ability to kick into balls is the star of the game?
I dont mind DP so much with high AV teams, as it takes some effort to make a good foul, but with low tr or low av the skill is simply too munchkin. |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Sep 22, 2005 - 10:43 |
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Story time!
My longest running team (Prophets of Tragedy) started out getting a bunch of Strength increases. I took a DP for defensive purposes, just like you. The effect of that was that a whole bunch of players saw +ST players plus a DP and wouldn't play me. Those who did play me, either played "clean" and still won because they were better coaches / their team was better geared towards scoring TDs, or they did foul and ended up on my blacklist (yes I had one). Either way, my W/T/L record was just sad because I was more preoccupied with protecting my precious +ST players than actually winning the game.
Then came along some guy who challenged me with his wood elves, he said: "I'd like to play your humans."; and after asking him which he said he didn't care much. So I gleefully connected with my Prophets, who were both higher in TR and TS. And I got my ass handed to me raw. He had the "get the ref2" handicap, and proceeded to foul my team to bits. Of course, I had my DP for defensive purposes, but as I never fouled first - I didn't know how to do it correctly and my fouls were weak and ineffective. I did not concede, on principle and watched as my team got destroyed by a bunch of blodging elves. Actually, it didn't get destroyed, my +ST ogre just got niggled, apo saved him but he got ripped again after that.
I stopped playing after that game, for weeks. Then I realized, what good is having a good team if I only pit it in unfair games? What's so glorious about picking on weaker teams when I have these stat upgrades? Why should I keep them alive? They're not meant to live forever. And I changed.
It's been a long way, but my CR went from 150ish back then to CR165 now. Of course, I've been lucky so far and I still do make tactical blunders (which is why Balint enjoys playing me probably). But I think I'm better off now, and if anything... I should thank my opponent back then for kicking some sense into me.
So thanks. |
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Brad
Joined: May 16, 2005
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Sep 22, 2005 - 11:17 |
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The Problem with "DP is for defensive purposes only" is much the same as the OVERKILL method for keeping the world safe with Nuclear Weapons. Having 1 or 2 players who can effectivly destroy the rest of the other team is like the world having enough nukes so that noone uses them. Unlike countries faced with aniahlation though, DP 'for defense only' only works if U have 2 coaches playing each other who are both;
A - True to their Word &
B - Are willing to not exploit broken skills to win.
As soon as one person fouls, their opponent has to foul back or else be aniahlated (especially with GetTheRef).
I know the arguments back and foward about this being BLOOD-BOWL, and how elf coaches just want to make it -BOWL; but with DP in there, it just becomes BLOOD. And as for me, who plays both Strength and ElfBowl, I want to enjoy both. |
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He who dies with the most toys.... Is still dead |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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Sep 22, 2005 - 11:18 |
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Why don't we all get a DP of our own? |
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Mimashi
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
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Sep 22, 2005 - 11:40 |
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Ok... I've taken my time reading all the posts. (You guys surely ROCK!).
Now, on to answering:
@Wizard. If this is the typical behaviour.. well I'm rather curious as to who those AV7 teams do actually play, since is far worse for them to face, say, a team with lots of blocks and tackles than one with a single DP.
@Cloggy. I've had a peek at your teams and I can imagine the looks on your face when you see someone with DP approaching the prone Meuh.. 
Just to take that as an example.. you got a team with a superstar bullcentaur and lots of mighty blow/piling on/guard chaos dwarves. Now.. having a DP player can be used to scare your valuable players off and make you play more cautiously.
Obviously then, when I write "I use my DP defensively" I can't mean "I never foul unless the other fouls". By the way, if you need a "tactical" foul only to prevent the enemy from getting up and scoring the following turn, you may foul with a player without DP.
@Karhumies. I'll try [U]nranked... I'd like to do some tourney.
@ClayInfinity: 
@Tommi. Actually you don't HAVE to use DP in every match, just like Dauntless is not always handy. I usually don't foul if I can help it, because there is still a 1 in 6 chance of being sent off.. so if the match seems even, I prefer not to foul. also, I don't like fouling the best players of my opponent for the sake of it..
@torsoboy. Actually a coach who knows how to foul is far more dangerous than a non-fouler with a bunch of DP. I've learned that the hard way..
@Brad. I don't agree on the fact that DP is a nuclear weapon. It can be if the coach using it is more apt at fouling than you at preventing it... but your team can be bashed much more effectively by an expert blocker than by a fouler.
Said that, I can agree on the fact that DP can be used in a silly and lame way..
@MrMojo. We should LEARN how it can be used... then we can decide if we are to get it or not. |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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Sep 22, 2005 - 12:41 |
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| Mimashi wrote: |
@Karhumies. I'll try [U]nranked... I'd like to do some tourney. |
Now's the time to shamelessly advertise my very own Grudge League. We are just about to add one slot of every race into the league and the fastest teams to join will get to replace inactive coaches (if there are some) in the tournaments in progress.
| Mimashi wrote: | @Tommi. Actually you don't HAVE to use DP in every match, just like Dauntless is not always handy. I usually don't foul if I can help it, because there is still a 1 in 6 chance of being sent off.. so if the match seems even, I prefer not to foul. also, I don't like fouling the best players of my opponent for the sake of it..
@torsoboy. Actually a coach who knows how to foul is far more dangerous than a non-fouler with a bunch of DP. I've learned that the hard way.. |
A player who knows how to tactically foul is a worthy opponent indeed. Stunning the key player just before opponent's last turn begins can easily settle the whole match, even if your own guy does get sent off.
However, if the situation is even in numbers, it is risky to foul if you are aiming at having a man advantage. Thus, you won't be using the DP more than 1-2 times per match at most.
The key feature of a DP is he becomes a marked man. Therefore, I often give DP to the first player who ages and niggles/suffers a stat drop. He's just about useless with any other skill, it won't matter if he gets fouled to pieces and the team can play ball just as well as after he gets sent off. |
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Grudge [L]eague, #GrudgeLeague @ irc.fumbbl.com
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2005 - 13:37 |
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| Karhumies wrote: |
The key feature of a DP is he becomes a marked man. Therefore, I often give DP to the first player who ages and niggles/suffers a stat drop. He's just about useless with any other skill, it won't matter if he gets fouled to pieces and the team can play ball just as well as after he gets sent off. |
I like my MA8 blodge sidestep diving tackle dirty player. The threat of being able to foul from 10 squares away is worth it, in my experience. |
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Mimashi
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
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Sep 22, 2005 - 13:45 |
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What about a wood elf catcher MA9 block - dodge - sprint - sure feet -dirty player?
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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Sep 22, 2005 - 13:46 |
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| torsoboy wrote: | | Karhumies wrote: |
The key feature of a DP is he becomes a marked man. Therefore, I often give DP to the first player who ages and niggles/suffers a stat drop. He's just about useless with any other skill, it won't matter if he gets fouled to pieces and the team can play ball just as well as after he gets sent off. |
I like my MA8 blodge sidestep diving tackle dirty player. The threat of being able to foul from 10 squares away is worth it, in my experience. |
If you are actually planning to foul with him - yes.
If you just need someone with DP to be bahsed silly by your opponent to divert his attention - it depends. |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2005 - 13:48 |
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Out of catchers, my fav is definitely Sure feet, DP human catcher. Humans get 4 catchers, but who actually needs that many ST 2 players for scoring? Since there are some who just might never get the ball in the game, why not let them take DP. |
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Main Organiser of
Grudge [L]eague, #GrudgeLeague @ irc.fumbbl.com
and Stunty Spinoff Series, #GrudgeLeague |
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