| Poll |
| Where do you stand on Intentional Grounding? |
| Intentional what? |
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8% |
[ 11 ] |
| I hold onto the ball: I don't throw it away |
|
7% |
[ 10 ] |
| It's an option in my playbook, but I don't use it very often |
|
70% |
[ 92 ] |
| Hey! You've given away my favourite tactic: I was trying to keep this secret! |
|
10% |
[ 14 ] |
| Intentional Grounding is evil! EVIL! And should be banned! Stop doing it or you may go blind |
|
2% |
[ 3 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 130 |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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  Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 15:52 |
 
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Well, I've been around on fumbbl for about a month now, and am beginning to shake the dust off some moth-eaten coaching skills. Some things have surprised me about the style of play of many coaches, though.
In particular, I haven't come across any other coach (except one RL friend of mine - I'm watching him use the tactic as I type) who makes use of Intentional Grounding. For those who don't recognise the term, Intentional Grounding is just a puffed-up way of saying 'throwing the ball to an empty square'.
Many coaches will immediately ask: why would you ever do this? It's an automatic turnover straight away (barring some fluky scatter), and you've given up possession of the ball: picking up the thing is hard enough the first time round!
Even so, there are some match situations when throwing the ball to the <i>right</i> empty square can be an extremely effective strategy. A lot of coaches on fumbbl defend very high up the pitch, often with no deep covering player: these coaches assume that before the offence can put the ball deep into their half, they'll have to move some receivers there, and they know that their opponents just aren't <i>that</i> quick. In fact it can sometimes be useful to send a few runners through, before passing not to them, but to an empty square near the opposition end zone. You would only do this if the opponent has no player in position to reach the ball in one move.
Now you leave your (probably very surprised) opponent to scramble backwards in an effort to get closer to the ball, and to blitz and mark your runners who are chasing it. You can expect him to be forced to make dodges, gfi rolls, undesirable blocks on the LoS, in order to get players into the right positions. On your next turn, you should still have a couple of runners in position to get free and chase down the ball, and hopefully even pick it up and score! At worst, you have put the ball in an awkward position for your opponent (especially if his team lacks a passing game), and have broken up the play hugely: always useful if your team has an advantage in MA, AG and ball skills.
Of course, this tactic works especially well against slow teams (Orcs, Khemri, Dwarves), and is especially risky against the likes of Elves and Skaven (although they are less likely to set up a shallow defence to begin with).
Admittedly, this isn't a bread-and-butter tactic, but I have found it to be useful surprisingly often - again and again I see a defence that is so shallow that I simply can't resist it  . It's also always available as a tactic of last resort: when you think there's no way you could possibly score, you can always try this - when things are stacked against you, where there are dice there is still hope, and this tactic makes both players throw risky dice like crazy.
But what I didn't expect was that most of my opponents have been so unfamiliar with this tactic; often assuming that I had made a strange, inaccurate pass or a mis-click. I also haven't been able to track down any old forum discussions on Intentional Grounding/throwing to empty squares: which I would have thought might have been an area of controversy to the extent that, say, crowdpushing seems to be.
Has all this been debated before somewhere? Has throwing the ball to an empty square been hashed over by the experienced coaches here and rejected, or else filed away in little black books for special occasions? Do other coaches do this? I'd be very curious to know, as it's becoming a key part of my playbook - despite the fact that it only takes one opposition deep defender (a full back, in fact, with exactly the same function) to stop the strategy entirely.
All opinions welcome: should we promote awareness of this tactic in an effort to discourage poor, shallow defending?
--
Here are a few matches in which Intentional Grounding was used successfully, to give you a clearer idea of what I'm rambling on about:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&op=view&id=938869 - Dark Elf vs Orc match: The Elves' consolation touchdown
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&op=view&id=939985 - Wood Elf vs Halfling match: This match should be a joy to watch anyway When there are about 3 Elves left they manage to snatch an unlikely Intentional Grounding td
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&op=view&id=945198 - Norse vs Norse match: The first touchdown of the game. Desperate measures are brought in as Ale players skive off to the KO box. But this can't be kept up for the rest of the game …
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&op=view&id=945116 - Chaos vs Norse match: Finally, an IG touchdown in a match I actually won (in retrospect, it looks like I was cherry-picking there: I'm not sure who made the challenge …)! The second Chaos td is an IG one, I think
Intentional Grounding can also be effective on the counter-attack when you've managed to snatch the ball. Here's an example of another coach making good use of it:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=948982 - Dwarf vs Orc match: The first dwarf touchdown |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 15:55 |
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We call it punting  I use it fairly regularily. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 15:57 |
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| Macavity wrote: | | We call it punting I use it fairly regularily. |
Good to know: and you're quick as ever
Perhaps I've never seen it used against me because I always do defend with the fear of it in mind.
Edit: Also searched the forums for 'punting' and didn't find many references either. I would say that this is something relatively new coaches need to be aware of.
Macavity: can you give me a link to a match where you punted to add to the post? |
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Last edited by pac on %b %31, %2005 - %16:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:00 |
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I would have to say that I don't plan for it (for my use, or to defend against). It's more of a, "Well, this is my best shot" kind of thing. Maybe it's too much dwarf history, but I like to keep my hands on the dang thing. |
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Telcontar
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:02 |
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I use it when i have no hope of getting a TD but my oppo is putting lots of pressure on my ballhandler and could get the ball by blitzing and snatch it up etc..
to make scoring harder for him
In the case of free runners of mine and i have one last chance i always try to pass towards them.. If they can reach my runners they will blitz them anyway while retrieving the ball and the chances that he doesnt get up a free ball with some gfi action are minimal |
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qk
Joined: Oct 21, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:07 |
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I haven't played BB online yet, but I recall using this (rather dirty) tactic back in the old days... |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:13 |
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| pacartwr wrote: | | Macavity wrote: | | We call it punting I use it fairly regularily. |
Good to know: and you're quick as ever |
Looking at the time difference between your posts,
I think we could call macavity within all certainty,
"a 3 minute man". |
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PeteW
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:15 |
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Kicking into space rules. I use it quite a lot. Mainly if I manage to blitz the other players ball carrier and I can't make the ball safe - throwing it away from his players seems like a good plan.
It was a RL friend of mine who first introduced me to the tactic many moons ago now. I was outraged at the time and moaned to him that 'it wasn't in the spirit of the game' and 'I'm sure it's not allowed' and other such nonsense. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:22 |
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| qk wrote: | | I haven't played BB online yet, but I recall using this (rather dirty) tactic back in the old days... |
I agree about this being sneaky. I seem to remember that I might have said something about 'never stooping so low' somewhere back in my coaching past; but these days I find that the rule of fewer scruples meaning more fun applies in BB
In my ideal BB world, Intentional Grounding would be banned, and there would be a proper set of rules for kicking in open play: but in practice that will have to remain something just for house-rules.. |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:26 |
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I honestly can not think of a reason why this tactic should be considered dirty. Still, given the fact that it's not always useful I don't use it that often. |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:29 |
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It's not dirty, it's useful.
The end justifies the means, eh? |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:32 |
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| Cloggy wrote: | | I honestly can not think of a reason why this tactic should be considered dirty. Still, given the fact that it's not always useful I don't use it that often. |
Well, many coaches understand BB best by comparison with the sports it resembles: especially American Football. As far as I know, intentional grounding is illegal in American Football - I think that's where the term comes from (although I'm not sure about that, and I couldn't say what the penalty is for doing it - not my sport at all).
On this side of the Atlantic, rugby is the most similar game to BB. And in both codes passing the ball forward at all is illegal. You can kick upfield - which is where the latent desire for kicking rules in BB derives from. |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:38 |
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I only throw the ball upfield if it's late in the half and I want to keep my opponent from scoring. If I wasn't leading at that point I probably wouldn't do it ever, unless my ball-carrier was so open he'd lose it anyway. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:43 |
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Intentional grounding is the most controversial of calls (next to Pass Interference) over here. In BB, no such thing exists. We call it punting. In American football, any player, at any time, can kick the ball forward. |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:44 |
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It depends what team you use and what team you play against. Personally I dont see it as a good tactic, as soon as the ball leaves my possesion a potential *bleep* up is just around the corner, however well planned it may seem. |
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