| Poll |
| Where do you stand on Intentional Grounding? |
| Intentional what? |
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8% |
[ 11 ] |
| I hold onto the ball: I don't throw it away |
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7% |
[ 10 ] |
| It's an option in my playbook, but I don't use it very often |
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70% |
[ 92 ] |
| Hey! You've given away my favourite tactic: I was trying to keep this secret! |
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10% |
[ 14 ] |
| Intentional Grounding is evil! EVIL! And should be banned! Stop doing it or you may go blind |
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2% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 130 |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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 Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:49 |
 
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I do/would use it to protect a lead or prevent a score and thats the only sensible use for the tactic imo. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 16:52 |
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Not very sound Unless you are :
1) Playing vs a very slow team (ie dwarves maybe) and
2) Playing with a very fast team (elves) AND
3) It's a last ditch effort
In general, the defense must do 2 things to stop you. 1) Knock the ball loose and 2) pick it up and gain possession. Well .... you've just done #1 for them.
For this to work you most likely have to throw a long bomb, and unless you have the Hail Mary skill, this means a decent chance of fumbling and REALLY screwing yourself over. AND remember the ball scatters 3 squares then and additional 1 after it hits, so who knows what kind of protection you can give it. IF you can accomplish this by throwing a shorter ball, then why not just throw the completion and run the ball down the field instead.
Most decent coaches don't put ALL their defenders on one side of the field and can defend against this tactice. If you try it vs me I'll just say thank you.
The ONLY time Ive seen this type of strategy used is when a team has the ball, the lead late ion the game, and the ball carrier is JUST within range from the closest blitzer. Ive seen coaches throw the ball closer to the opponent's endzone (quick pass) knowing that even if they get hit, the opponent doesn't have enough movement to track down the ball.
PS :
And you should add a Poll choice : Only used in DIRE DIRE circumstances. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 17:13 |
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| Mully wrote: | 1) Playing vs a very slow team (ie dwarves maybe) and
2) Playing with a very fast team (elves) AND
3) It's a last ditch effort
…
Most decent coaches don't put ALL their defenders on one side of the field and can defend against this tactice. If you try it vs me I'll just say thank you. |
Absolutely: as I say, it only ever takes one defending player sitting deep to scotch this plan entirely. But so many coaches don't deploy that one player.
That said, I don't really think you need all those 'ands' above. Any one of those reasons can be enough to make it worth a try: the exact positioning of the players on the pitch is more important. You need to be able to get about three players going after the ball before you throw it, and do as much as possible to slow down the opponents who will be chasing them in turn. You should be certain that no opponent will be able to reach the ball in their turn, even with gfis and favourable scatter. Also, you do indeed need to cover the place where you plan to throw <i>from</i> in case of a fumble.
Needless to say, I didn't link the numerous times this has gone wrong! (Cursed dwarves counter-attacking the length of the pitch on final turn …) |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 18:15 |
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I don't use it as an offensive tactic too. More I don't even see why running a turnover to get a TD could be interesting. On defensive purpose only. |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 19:07 |
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I've saved a couple victories using this tactic, but never before have I thrown the ball with the intention of scooping it up later and scoring...it's always been when I'm receiving the ball, have few players left, and the other team is bearing down hard on me. Once had a single gutter vs 11 orcs run back, grab the ball, watch all potential tacklers come forward, then step up and heave the ball to the other side of the pitch...zero shot at scoring myself, but it got the ball out of the orc's hands, forcing him to do gfi's to reach and long passes to get the ball back downfield in a single turn for the tying score (which didn't happen)...
As far as explanation of the term in the first place:
Quick background: In American Football, one team is one offense, the other defense. The goal of the offense is to get the ball past a goal-line to score; the defense is trying to stop them and/or regain the ball for their own offense to score. The field is 100 yards long (a touch shorter than 100 meters). Each play starts with the ball stationary, then as soon as it's moved the play continues until the ball carrier either throws an incomplete pass or is tackled; then all lineup to start again. If they haven't advanced the ball 10 yards in 4 plays, the ball changes hands. If they make at least 10 yards, then the play counter is reset and they again have 4 plays to advance 10 yards from their new position.
Ok, background over. Now, here's where this phrase comes from: A sack occurs when the quarterback (thrower) prepares to toss a pass, but is tackled before he has a chance to do so. Play over, ball placed at spot of the tackle, one less chance to make those 10 yards. If the pass falls incomplete, however, the ball is placed back at the spot the play started. The thrower, if he knows he's about to be tackled for lost yardage, might toss the ball just for the sake of getting rid of it and not being sacked with the ball still in hand--the hope is a completion, or at least an incomplete and try again from the original spot. If there's no receivers anywhere near where the ball lands, however, a penalty is called for trying to take advantage of the rules, called "Intentional Grounding"...intentionally throwing the ball where it can't be intercepted, for the sole purpose of avoiding a sack. The penalty is to lose yardage just as if a sack occurred AND advance the play counter, whereas most American Football penalties will shift position but require replaying the same attempt, be it First Down or Fourth Down.
Ok, reading what I just wrote over again, probably the only people this will make sense to will be fans of American Football in the first place, but maybe it can help at least one lost soul out there, so I'm clicking submit anyway... |
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Ironik
Joined: Jun 28, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 19:12 |
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Oh that one!
Is a standard Kehmri technique in RM BB with Hail Mary Pass.
One of the main reason this skill exists is...Intentional grounding |
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DonTomaso
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 19:22 |
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It's a wimpy excuse for a poor defense... |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 19:30 |
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Eagle.... I liked my explanation better. It's a Punt. Denver's doing great, BTW! |
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elvisdeadly
Joined: Dec 07, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 19:55 |
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i ve never used it i'm not that clever  has anybody used the hand off to the opponent option and why?? |
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qk
Joined: Oct 21, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 22:15 |
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Eagle, this one lost soul over here enjoyed the explanation, thanks for submitting!
And yeah, I said it's rather dirty and someone said itsn't... he is right. In the end, there is NOTHING dirty in this game, and I mean NOTHING.
See you around!
qk |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 31, 2005 - 22:30 |
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I ahve mainly used intentional grounding defensively: throwing the ball where your opponent can't even pick it up is the best way to avoid a turn 8 TD on either half. On offense, my favorite form of such a strategy has been to run a few catchers through, then HMP the ball between them and the oppo's end zone. 2+ HMP is more certain than a really long regular pass, although with HMP in the roster the opponent might be more prepared to what's gonna happen. Either way, I have mainly played with non-elven teams with poor access to Passing skills, making HMP a worthy option on doubles. |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 01, 2005 - 00:30 |
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do it please, I mostly play elves and people tend to cage the ball, throw it to an empty scuare, I don't mind if it's dirty
usefull tactic (this word sounds a lot like clockwork, never noticed before  ) sometimes... |
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chunky04
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 01, 2005 - 01:28 |
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I'm probably one of the coaches using this play relatively frequently. I use it on both offense and defense - though the offense part is usually in a transition from defense to offence after winning the ball.
Defensively, obviously the less turns left in a half the more effective it will be. Another aspect not greatly mentioned is using it for ball clearance simply to get the ball away from a cage once you get the ball free. In these cases it can be a throw to your own backfield where it is a lot more protected.
Offensively though, I think there are a number of factors people here haven't covered.
By giving the ball to a particular player, you give the opposition defense one major threat (particularly if that is the only player with good AG, MA etc in that area). By by punting ahead, if the opposition don't have anyone in range to pick it up, you create multiple threats from every player within range of picking it up. This makes it much more difficult to stop.
In this situation, its also superior to give the ball to the free area rather than the player as if the player is blitzed and knocked over, the ball will generally also become covered by tacklezones, making it harder to score. At the same time though, you may well have players able to dodge freely and then go and pickup a free ball.
There is often also less risk incurred compared to if the player drops the ball on a normal passing play. If that passing play is not intended to be a scoring play this turn, and the receiver is vulnerable to being blitzed if they drop it, you're often better moving the receiver to a screening position and punting the ball ahead of them. Its no surprise then that the most common teams I'd use this tactic with are Humans, CDs, and Chaos, all of whom contain players who are often reasonably fast and mobile, but who will fairly often fail a catch. I suspect my use of this tactic is one of the reasons I have a higher opinion of Human Catchers than many Human players. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 01, 2005 - 02:13 |
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| chunky04 wrote: | …
By giving the ball to a particular player, you give the opposition defense one major threat (particularly if that is the only player with good AG, MA etc in that area). By by punting ahead, if the opposition don't have anyone in range to pick it up, you create multiple threats from every player within range of picking it up. This makes it much more difficult to stop.
In this situation, its also superior to give the ball to the free area rather than the player as if the player is blitzed and knocked over, the ball will generally also become covered by tacklezones, making it harder to score. At the same time though, you may well have players able to dodge freely and then go and pickup a free ball.
There is often also less risk incurred compared to if the player drops the ball on a normal passing play. If that passing play is not intended to be a scoring play this turn, and the receiver is vulnerable to being blitzed if they drop it, you're often better moving the receiver to a screening position and punting the ball ahead of them. Its no surprise then that the most common teams I'd use this tactic with are Humans, CDs, and Chaos, all of whom contain players who are often reasonably fast and mobile, but who will fairly often fail a catch. I suspect my use of this tactic is one of the reasons I have a higher opinion of Human Catchers than many Human players. |
Thanks, Chunky: these are exactly the kind of situations in which I would use the manoeuvre - but I think you've done a better job of putting across the advantages than me
Have you ever experimented with skilling players deliberately for this role? A Human Catcher with Sure Hands as a punt-chaser? An MA+ Beast with Big Hand? - Then again, it's probably not worth it when one defender in the right place puts a stop to the whole thing. |
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vanGorn
Joined: Feb 24, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 01, 2005 - 02:33 |
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I haven't used it it often so far. But its an obvious tactic when the team is outnumbered and under pressure, while has advanced his whole team in your half. Especially in stunty leeg those situations may occur quite often. |
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