macike
Joined: Jun 25, 2005
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 Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 10:52 |
 
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| pushbloke wrote: | | ps, who made mojo censor |
Please notice that MrMojo is doing good job because PRNG discussion is far far away from the topic ("GFI to shorten pass?" just to remind). |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 11:09 |
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I tend to trust my throwers.
I mean... a coach must trust his men, right?
I try to make them feel self-confident. And they repay me with some very cool accurate Long Bombs.
ps: they also offer me a thousand fumbles in tribute, but what the hell...  |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 11:39 |
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Rolling dice isn't really random either and the distribution of the numbers isn't even completely equal (at least not on dice where the numbers aren't printed, but where small holes are drilled into the die). Thus, I don't have a problem with pseudorandom numbers, as long as a d6 roll has an equal chance of getting a 1,2,3,4,5 or 6. With a time initialized seed, there's the "randomness" of the time added to the mix. Theoretically someone could deliberately initialize the seed at the same time, but most people just leave their systemclock running continuously, so it is more or less random. Hence, I say: Yeah, be aware of pseudorandom numbers, but don't dwell on it. The randomness usually is good enough. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Nov 28, 2005 - 11:45 |
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/me smells the beginning of a new "Random Number Generator Broken" thread, and quickly leaves. |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 11:58 |
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After reading the start of this thread, something which I thought of trying to do a while ago came back to me ... and I thought I'd give it a go. Something nice and simple to help figure out what combinations of rolls are better, and here it is.
It's an excel spreadsheet - you can view the formulae by unprotecting the worksheet and unhiding the hidden columns. I *think* that the formulae are correct, but it would be nice to get some confirmation from one or two other people (preferably some with a reasonable understanding of statistics  ) -- I have been known to make silly mistakes once or twice before  . |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 12:15 |
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| Laviak wrote: | After reading the start of this thread, something which I thought of trying to do a while ago came back to me ... and I thought I'd give it a go. Something nice and simple to help figure out what combinations of rolls are better, and here it is.
It's an excel spreadsheet - you can view the formulae by unprotecting the worksheet and unhiding the hidden columns. I *think* that the formulae are correct, but it would be nice to get some confirmation from one or two other people (preferably some with a reasonable understanding of statistics ) -- I have been known to make silly mistakes once or twice before . |
I didn't check the formula, but just ran through an example from the website linked on page 1 of this thread. For the 2-2-4 (2 gfi), 2-4 (1 gfi) and 5 (original pass) the numbers match. While this doesn't prove the formula is all right, it's at least a quick check. Thanks for the excel spreadsheet, it's very cool and should come in handy! |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 12:16 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | | /me smells the beginning of a new "Random Number Generator Broken" thread, and quickly leaves. |
Hey, where you going, I'll come with you! |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 14:16 |
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go away you two. I like every random thread because I might learn something. |
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macike
Joined: Jun 25, 2005
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 Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 14:46 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | | go away you two. I like every random thread because I might learn something. |
Let them stay.
If you would like to learn anything then you should reread the Fumbbl Luck topic. Rynkky has wrote enough for anyone to understand that probability of rolling the snake eyes is:
- 1/36 in case of randomness,
- 0 or 1 in case of pseudorandomness (which was proven by Rynkky's piece of code).
Let's get back to the original topic. Laviak has put me on a new track.
/me cheers Laviak
I answered the question in topic in means of a nice weather accurate pass. Two other things came to my mind:
- pass or GFI in blizzard,
- pass or GFI if it is enough to not fumble the throw,
- both above combined. |
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pushbloke
Joined: Oct 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 17:00 |
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well mr "self appointed" censor, perhaps maybe i would like to read it, im not interested enough to trawl thru 2 years worth of your spam to go find the original thread, but seems how this one is alive i would like to read it to its conclusion. if you have nothing to add that others may (or probably) may not find interseting, please leave us noobs the chance to read whatever gets posted. if i were really interested i might spend valuable playing time wading knee deep through spam to find the answer, but im not that curious, if it is that "old" news, why are you bothering to try to stop it?
oh yes, the hunt for the trophy of spam king....
EDIT i am really not in a good mood today ..... |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 17:22 |
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hey Macike, I remember this thread pretty accurately (not perfectely though). About the non-evenness of every result due to the number digits that are non divisible to the fact he was able to know in advance the result of a die and the 8.4 that changed the way how the dices are rolled. But anyway, I still find them interesting.
Not the whinning about: ohhh I can't roll 4 ones in a row, but valuable points. |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 20:01 |
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| pushbloke wrote: | well mr "self appointed" censor, perhaps maybe i would like to read it, im not interested enough to trawl thru 2 years worth of your spam to go find the original thread, but seems how this one is alive i would like to read it to its conclusion. if you have nothing to add that others may (or probably) may not find interseting, please leave us noobs the chance to read whatever gets posted. if i were really interested i might spend valuable playing time wading knee deep through spam to find the answer, but im not that curious, if it is that "old" news, why are you bothering to try to stop it?
oh yes, the hunt for the trophy of spam king....
EDIT i am really not in a good mood today ..... |
wow, chill out, dude, I'm not censoring anything, juts making witty remarks and trying to be the #7 top poster. Unfortunately brownrob has hundred spams more than me. So I got to work on it like a pro. |
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macike
Joined: Jun 25, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 20:44 |
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| macike wrote: | I've made some probability calculations and here comes the outcome (in short):
- it is always worth to GFI once,
- it is always worth to GFI twice if you have a spare RR,
- it is worth to GFI twice if you have not a spare RR and your target roll is 5+ or 6+. |
I would like to add the update for a blizzard:
- it is always worth to GFI once if you have a spare RR,
- it is worth to GFI once without a spare RR if you need 6+,
- it is never worth to GFI twice if you have not a spare RR,
- it is worth to GFI twice without a spare RR if your target roll is 5+ or 6+.
Just to remind - target roll means the value you need to dice. So it doesn't matter whether pass has to be accurate or just not fumbbled. |
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macike
Joined: Jun 25, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 20:47 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | | [...] anyway, I still find them interesting. |
Then consider resurrecting some other/older thread. People that can answer your questions may not be aware that "GFI to shorten pass?" topic would benefit from their posts. |
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Flix
Joined: Oct 26, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2005 - 20:50 |
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there is always the rule dont make gfi to shorten pass without Reroll |
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