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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 22:40 Reply with quote Back to top
Pmg wrote:
So woulnd't it be quite more fair to simply just deny the extra mvp and estra earnings from a concession, when it would happen in a fumbbl oficial tourney? That way people who opt for conceding would keep their right to declare a game lost, and it wouldn't influence the winners of the game.


1- This would be a solution, yes

2- Sadly, this solution is not LRB and Ranked is.

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Captain1821



Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 00:39 Reply with quote Back to top
Pmg wrote:
So woulnd't it be quite more fair to simply just deny the extra mvp and estra earnings from a concession, when it would happen in a fumbbl oficial tourney? That way people who opt for conceding would keep their right to declare a game lost, and it wouldn't influence the winners of the game.


It would not be more fair because then, the winner loses all the SPPs he could achive.

Fair is to stand and fight like you did with your previous opponents. When you concide you create a disadvantage or an advantage in some way.

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CircularLogic



Joined: Aug 22, 2003
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 01:01 Reply with quote Back to top
In alot of other strategy-games knowing when you have lost beyond hope is a sign of an expert. Chess is the prime example. You never see a checkmate happen in any major chess-tourney.

I knew that I had lost. My 2 keyplayers out, back 0-2 against a full squad of mega-star players, my luck at a level, that I could call '1's to happen before I even roll. Why should I waste another 60 mins of my life?

I rarley conceed. It´s a VERY rare event and I have also turned alot of games. But THIS time, I was beaten and it doesn´t matter, if it´s the FUMBBL-CUP or an unranked one-time match - I always play to win and I know when I have lost.
Idolen



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 01:01 Reply with quote Back to top
The way this is going Official [R] tourneys will only be for a selected few. What if I or AFK_Eagle or some other poor coach that have children must abandon the game for somr IR much more important stuff than BB ? Then you can kiss your future in any offical event good-bye, or sacrifice your children. Now I know some ppl will make fun out of this bu all you parents out there know what I'm talking about.

JanMattys said that taking away the bonuses of conceading is'nt LRB and [R] are..... I was under the impression that conceading also was in LRB....

Evolve: I never thought, or had the impression that you would punish anyone now. Or change the rules. I was just trying to make the other coaches that screems for blood to cool down their flame throwers.

Best sulotion must be to strip the benefits of consession, and with all the ppl wathing the Cup games abuse must be discoverd.

Well thats just my 2p.

PS: Jan: I totally agree with you about fighting to end as long as there is a chance to get to the bal, or stop him from scoring by forcing him to do that 2+ with rr. I'm just a little allergic to prohibiting things just beacuse it might be better for the next opp. Then you can just as well forbid fouling if you can't win the game beacuse that would be too unfair for the coach that's winning. But as we all know by know..... somethings are just part of the game. =)

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Captain1821



Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 01:33 Reply with quote Back to top
CircularLogic wrote:
In alot of other strategy-games knowing when you have lost beyond hope is a sign of an expert. Chess is the prime example. You never see a checkmate happen in any major chess-tourney.

I knew that I had lost. My 2 keyplayers out, back 0-2 against a full squad of mega-star players, my luck at a level, that I could call '1's to happen before I even roll. Why should I waste another 60 mins of my life?

I rarley conceed. It´s a VERY rare event and I have also turned alot of games. But THIS time, I was beaten and it doesn´t matter, if it´s the FUMBBL-CUP or an unranked one-time match - I always play to win and I know when I have lost.


In Chess the way that your game will end, affects nothing.

In BloodBowl, conciding affects the next game of your opponent one way or another. For this reason it is not right to concide even if you have no players in the field. Conciding in tournaments to "save your time" or any other reason, is selfish because this action shows that you joined that tournamnet only for your own pleasure and after your pleasure is done, you don't give a shit about how your actions affect that tournament. You show that you already forgot that so many people played against you and lost by giving you a fair win to be proud of and you show that you are unable to do the same for the one that took you out of the tournament.

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Last edited by Captain1821 on %b %15, %2005 - %01:%Dec; edited 1 time in total
Captain1821



Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 01:37 Reply with quote Back to top
Idolen wrote:
The way this is going Official [R] tourneys will only be for a selected few. What if I or AFK_Eagle or some other poor coach that have children must abandon the game for somr IR much more important stuff than BB ? Then you can kiss your future in any offical event good-bye, or sacrifice your children. Now I know some ppl will make fun out of this bu all you parents out there know what I'm talking about.


For that kind of things you just can stop the game and resume it later using the reload files.

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sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 03:02 Reply with quote Back to top
My opinions:

point 1:

it would be nice that the players banned (eg droping from RRR) gets really banned and not back again and again.

point 2:

I may hear the arguments that Fumbbl Cup is one of the great event and entertainement should be kept until the last second (but disagree). but don't talk about fairness. I mean, really, play your first round vs those strong elves and you might end up beaten up. Then your next opponent would have an easy pray to beat. And? so it is.

I mean, coaches qualifies the cup with the team they can (and want to). and pairing, who you play and so on is rather random. Coach A got a little advantage because his opponent conceeded? I cannot imagine that his opponent was happy to do so.

Coach B won his game but guy fighted untill his last breath and coach B lost 2 key players in the process? So it is, both are part of the game. Could have happend to coach A.

I really think those qualified all would have loved to win the Cup. Banning because they conceded is crap.

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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 03:19 Reply with quote Back to top
well no sporting event worth watching will go without contraversy. I interpret this discussion to mean that the fumbbl cup is a worthy event.

bottom line: like fouling, conceding is part of the game. These teams earned their position to play in the fumbbl cup...they can toss it away if they feel like it. Next time...beat them in the qualifier.

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Firesky



Joined: Apr 06, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 10:16 Reply with quote Back to top
Captain1821 wrote:
When you concede you create a disadvantage or an advantage in some way.


Nope. You only change the future.

If u concede at any time during a match (only conceding in the last turn of a match is lame), you gave your opponent less chances to get some spp´s via td or cas or completions. So imho you cannot say it is an advantage or disadvantage for the opponent or for the next opponent as well.

It is only another way the cookie crumbles. And time will tell...

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tautology



Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 10:19 Reply with quote Back to top
To even consider banning a coach for conceding in a game, FUMBBL Cup or not, is absurd.

YOU MUST PLAY TO THE BITTER END OR YOU WILL BE PUNISHED!

Please...
Gitzbang



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 10:27 Reply with quote Back to top
Quote:
In alot of other strategy-games knowing when you have lost beyond hope is a sign of an expert. Chess is the prime example. You never see a checkmate happen in any major chess-tourney.
And in other strategy game tournaments concession is seen as bad manners, because it will screw up the tournaments ranking, e.g. Warhammer. That's simply not the point.

On the other hand i feel any player who managed to reach the Final Cup games has deserved their position their and should be allowed to treat it as he thinks fit. After all, it's only a game, both coaches had lost for sure and why should they be forced to continue playing? I imagine myself in a position like that vs an opponent that doesn't just go on and win, but takes a long time for each turn, fouling a long the way and maiming the remaining few - why should i be forced to spend an hour of my life watching that?

Funny thing is, by the way, none of Malthor's future opponents claim the concessions where unfair. It's only spectators and guys that didn't manage the Cup ...
CircularLogic



Joined: Aug 22, 2003
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 14:02 Reply with quote Back to top
Gitzbang:
My concession didn´t screw up the ranking in the tourney. In fact as money is no issue to the falcons, I denied him SPP he could have made. Which was why I asked Malthor if he is OK with conceeding.

The rest of the post you make some good points:
Only people not making it to the finals and never having to play the "so much pushed" falcons complain. Next year, feel free to beat me in order to deny me the spot in the finals...
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 14:05 Reply with quote Back to top
I think all coaches are entitled to have an opinion on the matter, not only those who proved to be better bb players.

FIFA decides the World Cup formula, not a council of the 32 finalists.

Btw, once and for all: it's not only a matter of advantages/disvantages.
It's all about fluff.

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MrMojo



Joined: Apr 17, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 14:07 Reply with quote Back to top
CircularLogic wrote:
Next year, feel free to beat me in order to deny me the spot in the finals...


No we'd rather deny you the access to that tournament. It's so much easier that way. You're hard to beat.

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Captain1821



Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2005 - 14:24 Reply with quote Back to top
Gitzbang wrote:
Funny thing is, by the way, none of Malthor's future opponents claim the concessions where unfair. It's only spectators and guys that didn't manage the Cup...


What a comment! You qualified once at the fumbbl Cup and you talk like the fumbbl God.

How do you know that those that post comments here, tried to enter the tournament? Did you bother to check all the tournament history to see if they failed to qualify?
Did you bother to check their personal history in tournaments to see how they perform in tournament?

I didn't spectate that game and I didn't tried to enter the Cup. I post here as a tournament player and tournament organiser. I don't like to see people concide and I posted why.

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