pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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 Posted:
Dec 18, 2005 - 18:47 |
 
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| JanMattys wrote: | Methinks cages scare the hell out of pac. 
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Hehe. 
I just learned a long time ago that you needn't <i>always</i> attack them. I break them quite often: but against the best caging with fully-developed teams you've got to say it's tough - I bet the Hellfishes must have lost a few generations of great players trying to stop formidable cages!  |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 18, 2005 - 19:21 |
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Past generations are the PAST!
Hellfishes only care for the present!
errr...
sigh...  |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 18, 2005 - 19:39 |
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Looking at the team, I'm really impressed. They're coming along nicely. I haven't watched the replays, but I like the look of the team. There are a few suggestions (some of which have been mentioned already, but I'll reiterate):
- Rerolls. a third is a necessity and should really be your next purchase. Followed by either another RR or a blitzer if you feel you're getting by with three (or if you need to replace a player). I'd aim for either 4 or 5 total, depending upon what you think you can get by with. I find 6 is a bit of a waste and just inflates TR.
- Thrower. Remember that the thrower is just a lineman with the pass skill. For DEs, I generally think throwers should be developed more like a lineman than a HE thrower, for example. I'd have gone with block, dodge sidestep first and then sure hands, dump off or something more thrower-y. Just personal preference, as I can see how it would be quite nice to have one dedicated long ball thrower (strong arm, accurate, etc...) just to scare your opponents and open up some more options.
- Kick. Get thee a kicker! I actually like sticking it on my throwers, as they're easy to identify and I don't forget to put them in the right position. Whatever works for you.
- Block/Dodge. I've sort of found that I prefer Block/Sidestep and then a mix of dodge and tackle. Most of your opponents will be able to come up with a tackle blitzer where they need to, so I find that blodge is slightly less valuable by the time you can get a lot of them. Just personal preference, perhaps.
- Doubles. 2 Guards. Very nice.  Guard makes an elf team mean. I'd be tempted to grab one Dauntless player (not a witch!), but aside from that, more guards == more better.
- Players to focus on. Everyone will tell you that the blitzers are the workhorses of your team and the witches are distractions. As a counterpoint, I'll say that your +stat and double players are the real workhorses. Blitzers are just linos with a free +ma, so they happen to fall into that category to start with. Be sure to get a few easy completions with that +ST and +AG guy to and they'll serve you well. Same for the guards. Make sure you skill them up whenever possible, as it's easy for guards to wind up as purely support players who don't progress as much as they should. Ideally, I'm shooting to get 3 skills per player... Block and Sidestep being two of them. Also, it should be easy enough to skill up that witch and get block, then try not to rely on her... she'll make plays and advance on her own. Try really hard to make sure those guards and +stat guys get a skill or two and the blitzers and witch will come naturally.
- The two-turn handoff play is a classic for a reason. I actually really enjoy playing it and I've find that my DEs have been really quite well suited to it. Why mess with success? Other options to open up the field include sending a few guys down the other side to open up the possiblity of a big reverse and spread the defense thinner. If you manage to get something like a NoS/Leap blitzer, you can send him on his own. If they blitz him, your main pack is safe for the turn. If they leave him be or just mark him, he can still be a scoring threat. The AG5 guy is an excellent middleman, by the way. |
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Paddock
Joined: Oct 26, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 18, 2005 - 20:12 |
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And by 'middleman' we mean the guy who takes the handoff in the middle of the run-handoff-RUN-THROW-catch-run-td sequence (capital letters show the middleman's part of the play). |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 18, 2005 - 20:22 |
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My advice after having played Delfs and Woodies (there is a reason for mentioning woodies):
Most important defensive skills are Kick and Leap, followed by Strip Ball (threatening) and Tackle+Pro (so my wood elves develop better for defense at the start)
Guard with elves helps a lot but is better against other elves, against cages you need also Block+Sidestep (or even you need that combo more than Guard )
...and for the ofensive play
You have a Sure Hands thrower, so you probably have realiced how quickly Delfs spend RRs. I'll go for some extra RRs, and then skills that make your positionals better (Leap, Sidestep, Tackle, Strip Ball, for the thrower: Safe Throw and Accurate) and save you RRs with your linos (Dodge improves ofence, Block, Pro to hit harder...)
Go for Three Turn Touchs if you can, it's less risky and you don't have to develop positionals as catcher/runners.
What works for me is to form loose cages around the ballcarrier and threaten touch with other players elsewhere, so I use the thrower to make sure that the ball reaches the spected player, but also to change the side I'm attacking quickly. With Safe Throw+Accurate you can also wait with the ball and the thrower back for a good long pass but that is for the time you have all those skills.
Best advice: Have Good Luck |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 18, 2005 - 20:25 |
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| BadMrMojo wrote: | | I'd be tempted to grab one Dauntless player (not a witch!), but aside from that, more guards == more better. |
Why wouldn't you give a witch Dauntless? |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 18, 2005 - 22:35 |
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More tips on development:
Strip Ball: if you are planing to play 3 turn touch and running games you would like to develop a blitzer with Dodge+Sure Hands and then Sidestep, just in case your opponent has this nasty skill.
Strip Ball and witches: Frenzy+Strip Ball only works well if your blocks are 2d, and then I'll go for Block+Tackle+Pro first
Dauntless and witches: you would like to have Dauntless, and it works well for a witch if she's blocking a ST4+ balcarrier (so Leap and Pro are good additions), even the Jump Up helps if you are making risky blocks, but making risky blocks with 110k AR7 players that roll doubles... , so it's only to use against nasty ballcarriers to win a match.
...and Migthy Blow for the above mentioned witch would be a good option, just to get rid of ugly Blodgers  |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 18, 2005 - 23:02 |
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Don't forget sidestep for witches, it's quite essential because they always end up close to the sidelines (when I'm playing at least). |
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Jeppan
Joined: Nov 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 18, 2005 - 23:04 |
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I now won my first match! I tried the feinting on one side and I pulled it off against a khemri team. Thanks for the tips but please anything can help and I am delighted to read your advice.
I dedicate my victory to my good helpers here on the forums!
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=1010174 |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 18, 2005 - 23:12 |
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A win against BooAhl even... congrats |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 18, 2005 - 23:52 |
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The trick is to run away from opponents and clear the playing field, by setting up crowd pushes with your witches. To that end, your witches should never take the "tackle" skill, so that you can push out annoying dodgers even better (unless your witch happens to get two double skills: The first one is for dauntless and the second one for mighty blow. In that case, you could take tackle in order to get the most mileage out of the mighty blow). Once you've cleared the field to 11 vs 8 with the witches, you're cleared for a touchdown.
As for skillpicks: For the line of scrimage linemen, I suggest taking skills in this order: Block, sidestep, dodge. Why dodge as the third and not the 2nd skill? Because line of scrimage blockers usually have tackle and even if they don't, a dodge that's turned into a push will still yield another block, whereas you can put your guy to safety when you've got sidestep and the opponent gets push results. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 19, 2005 - 00:23 |
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Note: if you want to specialize on crowdpushes, BE SURE your witches get Sidestep asap, or they will soon be crowdpushed as well. |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 19, 2005 - 01:55 |
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| BadMrMojo wrote: |
- Block/Dodge. I've sort of found that I prefer Block/Sidestep and then a mix of dodge and tackle. Most of your opponents will be able to come up with a tackle blitzer where they need to, so I find that blodge is slightly less valuable by the time you can get a lot of them. Just personal preference, perhaps. |
As this team is made for the Swedish league which is a scheduled league, blodge is very important to keep the team alive. It's true that most teams will have a couple of tacklers to use for their blitzes, but no one except dwarfs will have more than three or four. Blodge allows players to take a lot more punishment in the everyday blocking battle, especially combined with sidestep. For tips on tactics I can recommend you to watch replays with some of the top elves coaches in the league, like Webbe or Casper. From these you can get an idea of how you can setup a good running play with elves. Most good coaches always makes a running offense if they aren't heavily outnumbered as this is usually the most safe tactic. With a passing game there is greater risk of snake-eyes causing a critical turnover that leaves the ball exposed.
Remember that throwing 2dice blocks with the block skill is way safer than rolling 2+ dodges, even if you have dodge. Three blocks and a blitz to clear the way for a ball carrier far upfield is not as likely to fail catastrophically as a typical handover/pass/interception/catch+usually a couple of gfi:s. If you get both downs results when you are trying to push the defenders away you will still have the ball on your opponents half of the field. A fumbled pass often leaves the ball unguarded at your side.
Don't get me wrong, passing plays definitely have their place too. It's usually a bad idea to start a match with a 2-turn touchdown if your opponent is a chaos team with multiple dp:s and claws. Remember that the bashing teams can hurt you a lot more on their offense than on yours. Denying them turns to do this is often a good strategy. Look at this match where Tricktickler run circles around Has dwarfs to deny them a chance for an offense. (This is probably hard to do with dark elves but the reply is funny. )
It's important to remember that ranked and scheduled leagues are very different. In ranked I would gladly let five players die to win a game. In a big league like the Swedish you of course still need to win your matches to advance to the higher divisions. But if you end your first season winning the third division it will make the next season in division two very painful, possibly ending in a retired team. In ranked, fouling is frowned upon by many coaches. In the Swedish league, most people foul given the opportunity, you should too.
Sidestep is your friend when you want to avoid lethal fouls, it allows you to sidestep away from the horde of stomping orcs instead of into the middle of it.
That's enoguh for today, work begins in six hours! |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 19, 2005 - 19:16 |
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| Tinkywinky wrote: | | ... In ranked, fouling is frowned upon by many coaches. In the Swedish league, most people foul given the opportunity, you should too. |
Got to say - and while I'm sure there is an English-speaking near-equivalent - this makes the Swedish league sound great.
Note to self: Must learn Swedish ... |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 20, 2005 - 16:43 |
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| torsoboy wrote: | | BadMrMojo wrote: | | I'd be tempted to grab one Dauntless player (not a witch!), but aside from that, more guards == more better. |
Why wouldn't you give a witch Dauntless? |
With frenzy, you're risking a pushback and then another dauntless roll. If you reroll the first dauntless roll and wind up with pushes, then you're going into another block without the benefit of the RR on either the second dauntless roll or the second block itself. Odds are not good for the witch.
When you take into account that the stronger players are, as a rule of thumb, more likely to have mighty blow (against your lowest AV and most expensive player), that's potentially very bad news for your witch.
I'd personally prefer to get dauntless on a blitzer or lino. AV 8, no frenzy and lower cost to replace. |
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