incantrix
Joined: Dec 09, 2005
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  Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 16:43 |
 
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Has anyone written an article / got any good advice on playing against Skaven? I've played a couple of games against them on here and quite a few on the boardgame and despite their weakness I always seem to come off worse. A sturdy cage and careful progress seems to work fine on offence but when defending I have real more problems against them than any other race.
The problem is that they invariably punch a hole on one side or the other, bring in a carefully positioned gutter runner or more often two one on either side and then despite reasonable marking of all possible catchers complete a pass and leg it to a TD. I've tried completely clogging up one side of the pitch in which case they simply run it through the other side and I've tried bursting through with a spearhead of tougher players and trying to 'sack' the thrower in which case they almost always manage to scrabble the ball back into their hands and chuck it to one of their runners.
How do other players deal with this? Is there any general tactics that I'm missing here other than bringing down those gutter runners as soon as possible? |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 16:52 |
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wearing them down if your the stronger team...
let them score first, try to take a few down before they score, av7 does break
take as long as you need top score and just try to get as many favourable blocks on them, make the av7 work for you, if he has a Rat Ogre, dont try to take it down with 4 guys  unless he has Block/Tackle/Claw/RSC/Multiblock/piling ON 
skaven also arent as agile as elves so do try to use it to your advantage
skaven are my bogey team, cant beat em, cant win with em |
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Freppa
Joined: Oct 14, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 17:07 |
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Voorn
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 17:10 |
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Since I retired my team with the one turn scorers, I will tell you what stopped me.
1. The tackle skill helps a lot against those one turn scorers. That removes the dodge ability of the gutter runner.
2. When setting up for defence against a kickoff to the one turn scorers, try a tackler wall across the field. But put it far enough back towards the end zone so that thier reguler players cannot reach to try to push or block open a running lane.
3. Stay away from thier rat ogres. That means they will have to either move them (only a 50% chance of being successfull) or waste a blitz to even get it to you to make a block. That can screw up thier plans elsewhere on the field.
4. As has already been said, gang up as much as possible on them. As early in the game as you can whittle them down, the better.
5. They are fast so they will most likely be able to gang up on you more often and also where they want to do it. The gaurd skill really helps against them. Likewise, looks out for it cause it can hurt you .
Those are the tips that just pop off the top of my head that gave me a hard time. |
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incantrix
Joined: Dec 09, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 17:17 |
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Appreciate the tips, not seen a Rat Ogre on here yet though! |
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Voorn
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 17:49 |
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The rat ogres are wild animals. If there is no enemy right next to it, you need to either blitz on a roll of one or more or move on a roll of four or more. That means there is a good chance they will blow a blitz on it or have a 50% chance of just sitting there. If you can concentrate on taking out as many of thier reguler joes, the rat ogre isnt so nasty afterward when it is outnumbered and easily ganged up on afterward. Try to take it out early and you will get swamped so it is best to take out thier weak guys first while the rat ogre has to chase after you. |
_________________
Holder of the official Fumbbl titles of
1. EVIL INC 2. Evil Personified 3. Worst Coach
Gaming account self closed due to attempts to hack it and a lack of interest to play.
Immitated in chat by another member "S**n" |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 17:58 |
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1. if you play a strong team the best way is to take out as many skaven as possible
2. skaven play fast, if you can play slow, no need to prevent their scoring... if you score at the right time, it should be no problem to get out of this with a 3-2 win
3, if you have to play fast, you have no other chance then to just play better, whats not that difficult with a more agile team |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 18:01 |
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The Gutter Runners are like Elves: if the dice go their way, you just can't stop them on their offence. Mark them so they at least have to roll the dice, but there just isn't a foolproof defence against them (at least without skilling up a very specialised team).
As other posters have said: take every opportunity to block, blitz and foul them. Maybe you won't get all the Gutters in time to have a chance at a win for yourself: but if you do a bit of permanent damage at least you can give the next coach who meets them a better chance. 
Edit: On Rat Ogres, staying away from them is usually good, but if your opponent is lucky with his WA and Frenzied Blitz rolls it's a player that can dominate the game. If you have a Big Guy of your own, or spare MA 9 Linemen, or really cheap Linemen, consider marking it on the LoS. Sure, it's getting a free chance to block, but at least it's stuck on the LoS where it's far less troublesome than if it's able to roam around in support of the rest of the Skaven play. |
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Last edited by pac on %b %17, %2005 - %18:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
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Voorn
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
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Dec 17, 2005 - 18:05 |
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It is true that many of the skills needed to help stop them are rather specialized, but that does not make those skills useless against other races as well. Those same skills, tackle, gaurd, shadowing ext are VERY usefull against other teams as well.
I do not agree with doing your best to kill off and cripple teams for spite or "to help future coaches they play against". That, to me anyways, demonstrates a desire to ruin the fun of other players. It is one thing to beat them in a game and a totally different thing to try to force them to retire thier team and not play that race anymore. |
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Holder of the official Fumbbl titles of
1. EVIL INC 2. Evil Personified 3. Worst Coach
Gaming account self closed due to attempts to hack it and a lack of interest to play.
Immitated in chat by another member "S**n" |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 18:11 |
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With a strong team:
PLAY THE CLOCK. You say than you have no problems caging on offense - then do it! If you only score at turn 8, then you either win 2-1 or draw 2-2 if he manages a 1-turn-TD. If he has a oneturner, tackle/MB and/or DP is your friend. Get rid of him - at least for the turn 8 kickoff.
Skaven are not like elves. Their linos cannot evade blocks the same way as elves and can be tied up and slowed down by stronger players.
As Agile team:
You can still outbash them. In addition, use their AG3 to your advantage, tying up linos and SV. Do that on defense while going after their thrower. Skaven-Thrower have only AG3, so the very long passes are more difficult for them. Get a passblock or 2.
On Offense outscore them. If both of you do the 2 turner on a regular basis, you should at least draw. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Dec 17, 2005 - 18:14 |
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Rat Ogres suck.
Av8, Wild Animal, No regenerate, No Thick skull.
If he doesn't have Block or Pro, he's just a big thing you can remove very easily. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 18:18 |
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| Voorn wrote: | | It is true that many of the skills needed to help stop them are rather specialized, but that does not make those skills useless against other races as well. Those same skills, tackle, gaurd, shadowing ext are VERY usefull against other teams as well. |
Tackle alone won't do much to stop a one-turner unless you have it on at least 7 players: that's asking a lot for anyone but Dwarves. Guard makes very little difference against most Gutter Runner offensive plays. I am a fan of Shadowing, but few teams have the personnel to make it effective against MA 9+.
All these skills can <i>limit</i> what the Gutter Runners can do, and make things a little trickier for them, but there's no way even a team with Shadowing, Tackle, Diving Tackle, etc on every player can guarantee a shut-out against Gutter Runners.
| Quote: | | I do not agree with doing your best to kill off and cripple teams for spite or "to help future coaches they play against". That, to me anyways, demonstrates a desire to ruin the fun of other players. It is one thing to beat them in a game and a totally different thing to try to force them to retire thier team and not play that race anymore. |
On the contrary: playing against Skaven who have 4 fit, skilled-up Gutter Runners is often <i>not fun at all</i>: especially if they roll a few Blitz! results at kick-off. By killing and injuring as many Gutter Runners as possible, you are making the game more fun for subsequent coaches who end up playing these teams at a later date: because <i>they</i> will have a fairer chance to win!
Coaches who don't want their Gutters to be fouled always have the option of not running Skaven: the same applies to other super-charged players like Wardancers and Werewolves. It's a fair deal: you get the fun of scoring in style and at high speed; you get a short life-span for your super-stars. |
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DreadClaw
Joined: Nov 17, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 18:25 |
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hit the players that matter.
In general: hit the gutters, hit the gutters, then for giggles, hit em again.
Sometimes theres a (usually) lino or a stormvermin that's nasty-ish, or a rogue rat ogre.. hit that too |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 18:31 |
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ROs and claw players are usually the punch of the team, take those out first. ROs and SVs may look scary but have the same armor as humans (and we all know how quickly they die), and the boot treats skaven the same. You'll also need a tackle/MB (or better) blitzer to hit a GR every turn, and foul it if he doesn't go out. The gutter runners are the key to winning, you absolutely cannot have them running around spoiling your plans. Do something about it. Don't score unless you have to, it's hard to do a scoring shootout unless you're playing woodies or something. |
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The plural of anecdote isn't data. |
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Voorn
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 17, 2005 - 18:31 |
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True there is no "perfect" defence against one turn scorers. But those are good ways to help stop them or give you the best chance of it. Likewise, you do not need those skills on every member of your team. You only need them on a few. Remember if the runner has to go through a spot between two players, both of those players do not need to have the tackle skill to remove the dodge ability. Only one does. Likewise, the runners either go up one side or the other. That means that the tackle skilled players should be played wide rather then stuck in the "middle morass".
Now, I can see trying to take players out of the current game. There are a lot of ways to stop those teams without doing your best to actually kill the players for future games. To me, trying to do that smacks of pettiness. I mean, why not just delete skaven from being an optional team to play because it gives you trouble? The same could be said of dwarves or gores or any of the others. Each team has its strengths and weaknesses. Learn to beat that team. Forcing the player to use a different team does not add to your own skills and only ruins the game for that player. |
_________________
Holder of the official Fumbbl titles of
1. EVIL INC 2. Evil Personified 3. Worst Coach
Gaming account self closed due to attempts to hack it and a lack of interest to play.
Immitated in chat by another member "S**n" |
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