GreatCthulhu
Joined: Dec 06, 2005
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 Posted:
Dec 29, 2005 - 07:22 |
 
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Wow.... torsoboy I can cope with (about chaos talk) but when the mighty deathgerbil enters the fray, I'll have to bow down and mind my words (If BUSKOPANZ has entered the fray I'll have been on my knees begging mercy).
| deathgerbil wrote: | | ... thats the problem with minotaurs, - low av and wild animal. You're generally getting the big guy to just soak up hits ... av8 just can't compare with av9. Also, Wild Animal is arguably the worst ... minotaurs CAN mutate, but they NEED to use their doubles on general skills ... Without block you can't really count on them not killing themselves, and without pro, good luck ever moving the dumb animal. |
Minotaur counts as already having a mutation (horns) so your first double (if you ever do it) can safely go on block. After that... i can agree that for the sake of staying put and simply bashing the mino is the most ill fitted big guy. But as I said, i see a mino a good asset for the mid-pacing running game that chaos does at start.
| deathgerbil wrote: | | ...with a 1/2 chance of losing your action for every non-blitz movement, don't expect your minotaur to get in the thick of things ... It really sucks when your minotaur doesn't get up for half the game off the ground, ... Believe me, after creating pikachu and pikachu the immortal, I tried to use minotaurs for a while, ... Any decent basher coach knows how to use wild animal to their advantage .... Yes, they have frenzy, but how often do you think your minotaur will actually be in any position ... |
Now... I use a minotaur and it never happened to me to have it as a roadblock for half the game. Also, good basher coaches know how to use really stupid to their advantage too.. simply bash away people around the Troll and bingo, he has a 50% to stay dumb for EVERY action.
Yes.. you can put players around the troll to make that nigh impossible but the troll is supposed to be there to protect the rest of the team... not the other way around.
| deathgerbil wrote: | | ...ogres are good for the short run, and trolls are much better for the long run..... |
Never said that Ogres and Trolls are bad, though.. it all reduces to way of thinking. The three best chaos teams in fumbll do have respectively an Ogre, a Troll and a Minotaur. Is it an omen?
Don't forget the AG2 of ogres also... having a big guy that may reasonably try to pick up the ball is not a thing to underestimate, too.
Torsoboy: about frenzy I have to add that mino has str 5 and horns in addition. That means that with an assist he can blitz with 3 block dices (much less probability to get those annoying skull and both down).
Also you don't get that many players that can 2-dice-blitz a mummy or a big guy all by themselves.
As i said, anyway, is only a matter of how you see it....  |
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Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
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Dec 29, 2005 - 07:49 |
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Deathgerbil is dead on the point. Minos are only scary to a team under 150 tr. They never get mutated and once down are worthless. Having to blitz to stand up reliably is too vicious to ignore. AV 8 means that end of half punishment could be especially fatal.
I personally like the ogre and only cos of BH. I like being able to use him to keep low ag bashers outta the way of my CWs. A mummy locked in my tz is going to have to blitz out. Depends on play style but i like having my beastmen turn into blitzers.
Early on though.. Chaos do not really need a BG. They are handy against other high strength team (your most likely opponent) but their unreliability does have an impact. If you buy one late, just know that it is hard for them to acquire more than 2 skills. Blitzing with a blockless BG is a waste when you got some block, tackle, MB guys that do the same damage only more often.
I like the defensive roadblock option. Just make sure you have some other guys who can 'restrict' your opponent's movement. 
Happy Hunting,
__Synn |
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GreatCthulhu
Joined: Dec 06, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 29, 2005 - 09:15 |
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Mordus
Joined: Sep 07, 2005
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Dec 29, 2005 - 09:28 |
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| CorporateSlave3 wrote: | | Get yerself a +ST +ST Troll, you'll never regret it. |
Also get him Block, Pro and Tackle
So you need 2 12's 2 Double's and a Normal roll and you will be good heheh. And do it all by 6 SPP or it really isn't very impressive.  |
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If I could play more often would be the undisputed worst coach on Fumbbl
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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Dec 29, 2005 - 10:10 |
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Best mino I've had the pleasure of playing against: Toro Mugghiante. He made a mess of more than one of my poor poor elves. |
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Curro
Joined: Jun 07, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 29, 2005 - 10:18 |
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| Quote: |
Best mino I've had the pleasure of playing against: Toro Mugghiante. He made a mess of more than one of my poor poor elves.
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Fortunately, now he´s dead |
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xcver
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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Dec 29, 2005 - 11:02 |
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Seems to me those Minos got the pleasure of General Skills available to them which made the Big Guys much much better. I hope that I will roll enough doubles and that he'll survive (cause good big guys are often prime targets...especially minos because of av8) http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=1987673 (he took an injury break after acquiring multiple block last game |
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"Power without perception is virtually useless and therefore of no true value!" - Ryouken - Master of the Hokuto no Ken Martial Arts |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 29, 2005 - 11:02 |
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| GreatCthulhu wrote: |
Torsoboy: about frenzy I have to add that mino has str 5 and horns in addition. That means that with an assist he can blitz with 3 block dices (much less probability to get those annoying skull and both down).
Also you don't get that many players that can 2-dice-blitz a mummy or a big guy all by themselves.
As i said, anyway, is only a matter of how you see it.... |
Well it IS a matter of perception, I agree. When I consider the choice of taking a big guy in a Chaos team, I tend to make the decision based on the team strengths and weaknesses too (not just on the merit of the critter's own abilities). One of the team strengths for Chaos is that they get Guard easily, and one of their weaknesses is that they break easily for a bashing team.
This means that I do not have to (or want to for that matter) rely on my big guy to blitz anything, because he can just stand around in the thick of things and *still* 3db once in a while. Besides, once I get a claw (+MB or RSC) player, you can bet I'm going to blitz with that guy every turn. It also means that I should find a cheap and durable player, which in my opinion is a role best suited for a troll. |
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xcver
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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Dec 29, 2005 - 11:04 |
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Although I have to admit its a chaos dwarf team and thats a different story altogether.
In Chaos I'd prefer the Troll.
| xcver wrote: | | Seems to me those Minos got the pleasure of General Skills available to them which made the Big Guys much much better. I hope that I will roll enough doubles and that he'll survive (cause good big guys are often prime targets...especially minos because of av8) http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=1987673 (he took an injury break after acquiring multiple block last game |
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"Power without perception is virtually useless and therefore of no true value!" - Ryouken - Master of the Hokuto no Ken Martial Arts |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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I used to argue long and passionately for the Mino as best Big guy. But A: They now lose Block access except on a double and B: The auto unstun has now been extended to all Big Guys. Leaving there advantages as: Frenzy, Horns and no loss of TZ on WA fail (as long as he's standing) and the fear factor that Mino's undoubtably induce. An impressive list but countered by AV8. Simply Mino's are unlikely to be around long enough to cause the sort of grief you want them to. Personally I hate trolls. MA4 is terrible and Really Stupid is THE WORST NEGATRAIT in BB. Whats the point in a roadblock that has to be manned to be effective. Having a troll means 2 players that can only move 4. Any player worth the name knows that if you seperate a troll out from his team you either neutralise him or force the opponent to divert resources into bringing him back into he game. Too slow, way way too slow and far too much trouble. Go for the Ogre, bog standard. fairly reliable, tough and occasionally useful. |
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Adar
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 30, 2005 - 01:58 |
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To be honest, ogres aren't very fragile creatures either. I still got an uninjured ogre in my orc team... The ability to act independantly makes ogres alot more attractive to me than a troll. |
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For all his rage, he's still just a rat in it's cage. |
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bova
Joined: Nov 08, 2005
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 Posted:
Dec 30, 2005 - 07:05 |
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Thanks for all the advice - some real wisdom and experience here!!!
I had the same kind of troubles trying to use a Minotaur. Staying down for too long and wasting my blitz with him instead of the beastmen.
Having considered all the comments I'm going to get an Ogre. I like the extra armour and ability to keep a few opponents busy each turn worrying about him.
Plus I need a Big Guy to be my "General Grievous". |
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angelface
Joined: Mar 23, 2004
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Dec 30, 2005 - 07:46 |
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I've bought 273 trolls till now, and all of them loved to be knocked out in the first one or two rounds of the matches. Since fumbbl client rolls random and randomness comes from arithmetical averages, do have a troll and be sure you'll have an st5 bulletproof LoS specialist. |
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maxlongstreet
Joined: Oct 18, 2005
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Dec 30, 2005 - 21:21 |
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I've come to argue the side. Against all advice, I took a starting Minotaur. I was very lucky and got a quick skill and a double and got him block after only a few games. Now, granted this is very lucky, but with this having happened, I wouldn't trade the minotaur in for the world. My minotaur is my MVP and the only reason I haven't gotten slaughtered in the early going when every other team I face has three times as many skills. When you have Block, the minotaur rocks--Frenzy becomes much, much better--It gives a second chance to knock the pushed guy down, instead of giving me a second chance to fall on my ass. Since bashy teams are the only ones who will play me, (I don't really know why--It's not like an early Chaos team is all that scary) the Minotaur rarely gets stranded somewhere. He blitzes once into the fray and from then on he's in the middle of the scrum in the middle, since other Bashy teams aren't about to dodge off the line of scrimmage. He ties up about three guys, giving the Beastmen room to Blitz. He usually knocks down an opponent a turn, and I'm careful not to allow 2d blocks against him. I'm about .500 with early Chaos, and without this Minotaur, I'd be getting crushed.
And AV8 isn't a handicap if you're hardly every knocked down... |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Dec 30, 2005 - 21:46 |
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But, Max. You will be knocked down. My champion human blitzer has killed an Ogre, what chance would you Mino have?
Seriously, once you get a few Guards and MB around, an AV 8 BG is just more fodder. |
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