| Poll |
| Will you/Can you play test for me? |
| I can and have two or more of the listed games to do so with |
|
13% |
[ 4 ] |
| I don't have the games listed, but want to offer my opinion anyway, tell on. |
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13% |
[ 4 ] |
| No, sorry, let me know when you've added.... |
|
3% |
[ 1 ] |
| No. Go die in a hole. |
|
68% |
[ 20 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 29 |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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  Posted:
Jan 10, 2006 - 19:26 |
 
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I've mentioned a few times that I am working on what is going under the working title of, "Unfair Tournament", a system of play to make a variety of miniature games playable with each other. It is not a universal rules system, but a compatibility set up, so that players familiar with the rules for their own minis game will have the least amount of new information needed. There is not and will never be a "point system" to balance things, part of the point of this is to use complete collections, including those crappy guys you never would touch in an official tournament.
I have currently developed working rules for Heroclix, Star Wars Miniatures, Zombies!!!, WarHammer Fantasy Bettles, and Warhammer 40k.
I am interested in seeing if anyone else has combinations of these and would like to play-test my rules. The basic rules will likely not change, but I'm interested to see how "fair" some of the special circumstance issues end up being.
So, I ask. Is anyone out there interested in play-testing for/with me? I hope that some of you nerdy folk own at least two of the above. I'm not going to type out everything I've worked out unless I know there is a point, though, so vote, please. |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 10, 2006 - 19:45 |
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"Zombies!!!"
Including the zombie doggies? I got 100 of those annoying critters around. Unfortunately, I got nothing else from your list.
Lots of Confrontation, some Rag'Narok and a few Dogs of War minis. |
_________________
Main Organiser of
Grudge [L]eague, #GrudgeLeague @ irc.fumbbl.com
and Stunty Spinoff Series, #GrudgeLeague |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 10, 2006 - 20:14 |
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I ws just thinking about the dogs last night. I should be able to work something out, it's the 1/2 damage thing that's a bit sticky. How many of those half-hearts come with the set? |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 11, 2006 - 20:38 |
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Ok, enough of you have agreed, so here it is:
UNFAIR TOURNAMENT
Turns, Rounds, and Sets:
A turn is one set of actions with a player's minis. A round is every player taking a turn. Certain forces will also have sets. Sets exist when each turn allows different actions, so a full sequence of turns equals 1 set.
General Notes on force composition:
An individual player's force will only be made up of minis from one game system. Forces can (and usually should be) further divided into typical in-system divisions (WH armies, Star Wars Factions, etc...). Forces may be further divided (or combined in opposition to system guidelines) to achieve a bit more balance. Unfair Tournament is not interested in perfectly balanced forces, but every force should have a chance of winning (even if it needs to co-operate against the most powerful). With this in mind, you may make slight modifications to the in-system rules for force composition. More on this in the individual sections, but it should typically include divisions along the lines of removing generic characters from a heroclix force rather than specific culling of powerful individuals. Keep some kind of theme, even if it's goofy.
Gameboard: Use a typical inch*inch grid like the maps included in Star Wars, Heroclix, or the Zombies!!! game (or combinations of). Typically one of the starting maps should be enough for 4 forces (chaotic, but that's part of the point). Thinking of allowing maps that allow usefullness of skills (like r2-d2 over-ride skill requiring doors on the map) is up to players. Having useless characters running around can be fun to!
EDIT: Currently only playable on Heroclix mats if Heroclix are included. Their base size is noticeably too large for use on other grids.
Life:
Life is one unit of, well, life. I just figured having a universal term for it might be helpful. The conversions to life are as follows
1 life = 1 Click in Heroclix
= 10 Hit points in Star Wars
= 1 Wound in WHFB/WH40k
= All Zombies have 1 life
Forces:
Each force description will include how the force is managed in the game, and how they fight each other force specifically. Each description will only look at the "offensive" side, so looking out how the opposing force fights yours is a good idea as well. (I didn't want to repeat things all over the place). Please note that it may seem the rules are geared more towards certain games. It is. It is meant to have all minis function as individuals, so games where that is less the case will be more modified to fit in.
BloodBowl:
Force Composition: 1 team. 16 figures, no more of any position than allowed on the team. All figure Statistics and Skills should be the "base" for that position, with the exception of mutations clearly visible on the miniature. Star Players welcome if the miniature is present, they can play for the team, and they don't exceed the 16 player limit.
Changes to your normal play: Surprisingly little, considering you are now part of a gigantic interdimensional battle. MA stat is how many squares you move, ST determines the number of Block Dice (yes, Block dice!) you use, AG is used for dodges and leaps, and your armour value is your... armour value. On your turn, you can move everyone, Block with anyone adjacent to an enemy, Blitz once, and throw once (fouling only applies if other BB forces are present as most figures do not go prone). Failed actions only end the figure's movement/action, not the team's turn. If all dice rolled show 6, success is automatic, if all dice rolled show 1, failure is automatic. When throwing a block, a "Skull" result means a free attack by the enemy figure. A pushback is treated normally, a POW means you have a chance to injure them. Any figure modelled with ball in hand can attempt a throw (ranged attack) at a distance of twice their ST stat. All BB attacks do 1 life damage. Skills which add to injury or armour roll only apply for Blocks, not throws. When damage is caused to a BB character, 1 injury roll is made for each life damage the attacker would cause, only the worst injury is applied. Injuries are applied as follows:
Stun Result - treated as prone (3 MA to stand)
KO Result - placed face down (may recover next turn or later with roll of 4+. One roll per turn)
BH result - spend one turn face down, upgraded to KO status.
SI result - Roll on table. MNG = face down 2 turns, Stat decreases applied, Niggling = +1 on future injury rolls.
RIP result - Dead.
Regeneration rolls are made immediately after injury.
Many
Vs. Heroclix: Number of Block dice determined by following conversion
1 Life Damage = 3 ST
every +1 beyond = +1 ST
On POW result, roll 2d6+ST for close combat, 2D6+AG for throw, and compare to targets defense value. Make injury roll if attack successful (result of 12 is automatic success) 1 Life Damage assessed if injury roll results in BH or SI. 2 Life Damage if result is RIP.
Plasticity means base roll for dodge success is 6 for AG 3 characters. Each AG above 3 drops success roll by one.
Characters with Battle fury are treated as having Stand Firm.
Vs. Star Wars: Number of Block dice determined by following conversion
1 Life Damage = 3 ST
every +1 beyond = +1 ST
On POW result, roll 2d6+ST for close combat, 2D6+AG for throw, and compare to targets defense value. Make injury roll if attack successful (result of 12 is automatic success) 1 Life Damage assessed if injury roll results in BH or SI. 2 Life Damage if result is RIP.
Large Characters or Characters mounted on Vehicles are treated as having Stand Firm.
Successful dodges do not result in attacks of opportunity, failed dodges do.
Vs. WHFB/WH40k: Number of Block dice determined by Comparing ST stat.
On POW result, roll 2d6+ST for close combat and compare to target's toughness + WS. Roll 2D6+AG for throw and compare to target's toughness + Initiative.
Targets gain +2 to "defence" in cover, +1 behind cover against ranged attacks.
Mounted figures, or figures with 6+ ST count as having Stand Firm.
Vs. Zombies!!!:Ranged combat attacks are made against a defense of 0 (hit unless you roll a critical miss)
Close Combat attacks automatically hit.
After a successful hit, roll 1d6. Result 1,2,3 = 1 life off YOUR mini. Result 4,5,6 = Zombie dies.
Above die roll is modified by +1 for every 2 ST over 3 your mini has. A roll of 1 is always a Zombie win.
Above die roll is modified by -1 for every ST under 3 your mini has. A roll of 1 is always a Zombie win
Heroclix:
Force Composition: Whatever works for you, typically good or evil divided by type (Marvel, DC, Indy). In my own games, I've found a generic units 3rd force is fun (since support characters and superheroes mean less chaos and more stomping your enemies), but we'll test more. If you have a very small number (relative to your oponents forces) feel free to meld them all together. Maintain the heroclix spirit by not including different levels of the same character.
Changes to your normal play: Nothing significant. Only minis and their abilities are involved. Every turn move points value rounded up/100 characters, characters moving two turns in a row still count as "pushing" and lose life (without Will Power). You will be dealing with a much larger number of characters than usual, but that's more fun!
Vs. BloodBowl: Your Attack value + dice is compared to their armour value. Targets gain +2 to armour in cover, +1 behind cover. Successful attacks result in one injury roll per life damage caused (see BB entry for injury table).
Vs. Star Wars: Your attack value+ dice roll is compared to their defence and damage is assessed as normal.
Star Wars minis gain 4 to defence from cover.
Star Wars minis with the "Stealth" skill are treated as having the stealth super-power instead.
Outwit can be used against skills or Commander effects, but not Force Powers.
Incapacitate will cause target that has not activated this Set to count as activated.
Mind Control can be used against any mini. It will cause target that has not activated this Set to count as activated.
Mind Control cannot be used on Droids
Mind Control description should read 20 points instead of 100 when targeting Star Wars minis.
No breakaway roll is needed to move away from being adjacent, they will get an attack of opportunity, instead.
Superpowers that negate the need for break away rolls negate attacks of Opportunity.
Knock back and Knock back damage apply to regular sized units only
Star Wars skill Damage Reduction is negated by any ability which ignores damage reducing superpowers.
Vs. WHFB/WH40k:
Ranged attacks are attack value + dice compared to target's toughness + Initiative.
CC attacks are attack value + dice compared to target's toughness + WS(only counted if hand weapon present).
Targets gain +2 to "defence" in cover, +1 behind cover.
Incapacitate causes target to be incapable of action next TURN
Mind control attacks roll against Leadership skill, target can be made to perform ONE action it could in any turn.
Mind control causes target to be incapable of action next TURN.
Any unit immune to pyschology may not be mind-controlled.
Outwit may be used against inate abilities (not those granted by items).
Any attacks that "ignore damage reducing powers" act as "no save".
Large units do not suffer from knockback, regular units do.
Vs. Zombies!!!:Ranged combat attacks are made against a defense of 0 (hit unless you roll a critical miss)
Close Combat attacks automatically hit.
After a successful hit, roll 1d6. Result 1,2,3 = 1 life off YOUR mini. Result 4,5,6 = Zombie dies.
Above die roll is modified by +1 for every life damage over 1 your mini causes. A roll of 1 is always a Zombie win.
Ignore cover for zombies as it will not affect your roll anyway.
Zombies may not be mind-controlled.
Star Wars:
Force Composition: Keep factions seperate. If you have a very small number (relative to your oponents forces) feel free to meld them all together. Maintain the rule of not including different versions of the same unique character (though they can exist in an opposing force of a different faction in the rare cases that's possible).
Changes to your normal play: Nothing significant. Every turn you may activate 2 characters. When all characters have activated your Set is over. Characters may not activate more than once per set. You may never have less turns in your set than any opposing force (Minimum 2 turns per set). Initiative is not a factor in Unfair Tournament. Force may be used once during your turn and once more during the round. You may find yourself using a great deal of combined fire to renew your set more quickly. That's great! Have fun!
Vs. BloodBowl: Your Attack value + dice is compared to their armour value. Targets gain +2 to armour in cover, +1 behind cover. Successful attacks result in one injury roll per life damage caused (see BB entry for injury table).
Vs. HeroClix: Your attack value+ die roll is compared to their defence and damage is assessed as normal.
Heroclix minis gain +1 to defence from cover.
Heroclix minis with the "Stealth" superpower are treated as having the stealth skill instead.
All Force power and lightsaber attacks count as "ignores damage reducing powers"
Force powers that enhance other attacks (Blaster Barrage) do not apply to the above.
Heroclix minis do not get attacks of opportunity, instead you need to make a break away roll of 4,5, or 6 on a d6
You may still attack after failing a break-away roll, as you've moved less than 6 squares.
You may only target soaring characters when within 6 squares of them.
Cunning Attack applies to any charcter WITHOUT an action token on them.
Bounty Hunters gain their bonus against any character with a silver OR gold ring on their base
Vs. WHFB/WH40k:
Ranged attacks are attack value + dice compared to target's toughness + Initiative.
CC attacks are attack value + dice compared to target's toughness + WS(only counted if hand weapon present).
Targets gain +2 to "defence" in cover, +1 behind cover.
All Force power and lightsaber attacks count as "no save"
Force powers that enhance other attacks (Blaster Barrage) do not apply to the above.
Cunning Attack only applies before the first turn of each set. It applies to all models.
Bounty Hunters gain their bonus against named charcters only.
Vs. Zombies!!!:Ranged combat attacks are made against a defense of 0 (hit unless you roll a critical miss)
Close Combat attacks automatically hit.
After a successful hit, roll 1d6. Result 1,2,3 = 1 life off YOUR mini. Result 4,5,6 = Zombie dies.
Above die roll is modified by +1 for every life damage over 1 your mini causes. A roll of 1 is always a Zombie win.
In the rare cases it matters (due to extremely low attack values), zombies in cover gain +4 cover bonus.
WHFB/WH40k:
Force Composition: Follow normal Army Lists. At this time, rules for vehicles are not developed, but you should be able to make house rules quickly based on the following. Let me know. If you have a very small number (relative to your oponents forces) feel free to meld them all together (though odds are you'll have many more).
Changes to your normal play: Almost everything. The stats remain the same, but the transplanting into the single figure world of Unfair Tournament changes almost everything else. Initiative is not a factor, missions will never apply. Turns go in sequence for a 4 turn set. 1st turn, Movement. 2nd turn, Ranged Combat. 3rd Turn, Close Combat. 4th Turn Magic/Psychic. Psychology and combat win/loss do not apply on this level. All units may act every turn (if capable). Movement stat indicate number of squares of movement. Weapon ranges should also translate inch to square.
Vs. Heroclix: Ranged Attacks. Your BS + weapon strength + 1d6 is compared to their defence, damage is assessed as normal.
Close Combat. Your WS + ST + 1d6 is compared to their defence, damage is assessed as normal.
Should an attack roll a 6 on the die and still fail to beat the defense, the die may be rolled again, adding the new number on. Rolling continues until either the defense is beaten, or a 6 is not rolled.
Heroclix minis gain +1 to defence from cover.
All attacks that ignore saves count as "ignores damage reducing powers"
You need to make a break away roll of 4,5, or 6 on a d6 to dis-engage from Close Combat.
Range is reduced by half when firing at soaring characters.
Each Mini with the Mystic Team Ability contributes to Winds of Magic/Warp calculation as a mage/psychic
Vs. Star Wars: Ranged Attacks. Your BS + weapon strength + 1d6 is compared to their defence, damage is assessed as normal.
Close Combat. Your WS + ST + 1d6 is compared to their defence, damage is assessed as normal.
Should an attack roll a 6 on the die and still fail to beat the defense, the die may be rolled again, adding the new number on. Rolling continues until either the defense is beaten, or a 6 is not rolled.
Star Wars Minis gain +4 defence from cover.
Each Mini with a force rating applies to Winds of Magic/Warp calculation as a mage/psychic (I need to double-check this)
Vs. Zombies: Ranged combat attacks hit on d6 roll of 2+ (apply range modifers)
Close Combat attacks automatically hit.
After a successful hit, roll 1d6. Result 1,2,3 = 1 life off YOUR mini. Result 4,5,6 = Zombie dies.
Above die roll is modified by +1 for every 2 ST over 3 your mini/weapon has. A roll of 1 is always a Zombie win.
Above die roll is modified by -1 for every ST under 3 your mini/weapon has. A roll of 1 is always a Zombie win.
Zombies!!!:
Force Composition: All the zombies you have!!! If you have just the Glow-in-the-Dark zombies from the Corps(e) expansion, field them as Government Enhanced zombies, if you'd like. If you have a whole bag.. maybe not (but maybe so, if opposing forces are large enough). It's recommended that Zombie dogs are only played as their own force, as they require co-operative damage to injure most opposition.
Changes to your normal play: Not really any, if you look at it a certain way. Every turn, roll one die for every opposing force present at the beginning of the game, add them, and move that many zombies, one square each. The major difference from the game is that you can't occupy the same square as another mini, but you can initiate combat. If a zombie begins a turn next to an opponent, you can attack instead of move. The opponent makes the roll, as if they were making a close combat attack against the Zombie.
Vs. Heroclix: Since no Zombies can never do more than 1 life damage, a special circumstance is applied in the case of damage-reducing powers. If multiple zombies are adjacent to the target with the power, than successful attacks will be allowed to stack up during that turn only (a maximum of 4 total attacks). Still very unlikely to work, but it gives the shambling dead a chance.
Zombie Dogs do 1/2 life damage, therefore requiring two successful attacks by dogs to damage even a "normal" character.
Zombies may not attack soaring characters.
Vs. Star Wars: Nothing Special. Zombie dogs do 5HP damage (as divisions smaller than 10 (1 life) are allowed.)
Vs. WHFB/WH40k: Count as Undead, where applicable.
NOTE::: Zombies!!! may be used as an "independent" force. Set them up in the middle of the map, and have each player roll a d6 at the end of their turn and move that many zombies 1 square each (or attack with them)
Please let me know if there is a particular Skill/Power/Ability that may add confusion (most should work normally) that I should include, or if there is something I'm missing due to oversight, or not having the latest rules set/Errata. |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis
Last edited by Macavity on %b %13, %2006 - %18:%Apr; edited 3 times in total |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 16:15 |
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This will be my last try. I know most of you want me to die in a hole, but a few said you'd help. Since you did not Identify yourselves, I'm bumping this one last time, in hopes of response. Thank you again for your consideration. |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 16:19 |
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Seems like good fun.
Sadly I don't have friends who can play with/against me this thing, and I don't have minis of the games you mention myself.
Just wanted to say that it sounds worth some playtesting, at a first blink.
ps: Did u know? I want you to die in a hole.
ps: what about "learn java and create a client, so we can test this online"? |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 16:41 |
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Well, it would include an awful lot of specific coding (since the main games every player is different), but if choice was taken away.... I dunno, I'd be more likely to make my brother do it (he of the programming degree), but I'm a bit worried about potential copyright issues. Is labelling TMs enough? |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Panda_
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 17:04 |
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I voted to die in a hole. It make think so much about the film Saw. |
_________________
"Rien ne sert de partir a point, il vaut mieux courir." |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 03, 2006 - 20:34 |
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Ok, so, long awaited update!
A few personal play-tests revealed the following:
1) A single "mat" is WAY too small for any decent number of teams (4 being the minimium decent), the current noted problem with the size of Heroclix bases is inspiring thoughts of custom made options.
2) Rather then the disadvantage that a small number of characters presents in a straight up Star Wars game, in Unfair Tournament, being reduced to, say, Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine only, and them therefore both activating every turn means, essentially, that you simply destroy the opposition in the end game. This has been dealt with (for now) by the new definition of a Star Wars "Set" in the rules above.
3) Playing so that Zombies turn anyone they actually kill into another zombie is fun, and the presence of energy explosion, grenades, and Cyclops and BullsEye, means Zombies die quickly!
I have included rules for the Zombie Dogs from Zombies!!! 4 because there is little reason not to. They follow their normal abilities and the normal Zombies!!! rules, but require mulitple hits to damage most other figures (Star Wars figs take 5 damage).
Brikwars has finally released part of their latest rules, once they are complete, I will post the full rules for using Brikwars minifigs and constructs in Unfair Tournament.
And Jan..... I am seriously considering learning Java for the sake of the map issue. |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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