Snappy_Dresser
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
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 Posted:
Jan 26, 2006 - 20:57 |
 
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| RedFish wrote: | | Snappy_Dresser wrote: | | pac wrote: | | Imerikol wrote: | | Undead and khemri are going to see a HUGE nerf in that mummies will no longer have G access and may also be getting Loner (the vault version of Big Guy). This cuts right to a core strength of these teams, especially khemri. I'd much rather have an FG with GS access than a mummy with just S access and Loner ... |
Fairly certain that the Mummies won't be getting Loner: there were enough howls of protest over G access. There was an option for there being a split, with Khemri having 'Tomb Kings' (S access only), and Undead keeping G on (more expensive) Mummies. But the poll went the other way ... (still lots of Undead-haters out there, maybe ...) |
Wow
Undies are REALLY gonna suck. |
What do you mean? They're one of the strongest rosters out there at the moment and with Wights getting Str. access it's not a huge loss and might even hlp them in the long run. |
Hmm. I forgot Wight suck slightly less now. Will have to play them a bit before I render a verdict, but my gut is telling me that Undies will get rolled ever worse by true bash teams. |
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z3d
Joined: Apr 16, 2005
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Jan 26, 2006 - 21:09 |
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| pac wrote: | | There was an option for there being a split, with Khemri having 'Tomb Kings' (S access only), and Undead keeping G on (more expensive) Mummies. But the poll went the other way ... (still lots of Undead-haters out there, maybe ...) |
off:maybe? lol. 100 people voted in TBB and undead mummys and team got nerf without a good reason (no extreme win/cas %)
back to on: i think necros rely on skilled zombies much better than some other teams. as everybody mentioned, wolf and ghouls die frequently (i always pray, when someone hit/foul my beloved wolf). if you can have some 6spp zombies, they can soak some damage, and sometimes regen do wonders. with FG its much better, but i cant keep them on the pitch very long  as long as the spp's are spreaded well its not so hard to loose your star wolf. . (what i'm talking, it hurst me sooooo)
When the opponent does some mistake with the tactic or with the dice, you can be there avery fast, and grab the ball. if he dont do mistakes (and play a hard cage game) then the necros have a very hard game.
off again: in vault, every important skill is downgraded (claw, stand firm, frenzy) and easy to access (no doubles to gain stand firm, thick skull), and with higher cost zombies and lost catch its slower to start with necros, much slower. the 10k discount on FG's is not enough, and i think the wolf can be reduced with 10k (compared to wardancers, which are 120k and they are much better in short and long term), the wight's S access wont help much against bashers (there are only two). the biggest gain to necros is the regen wolves, they will live longer now, i will see soon, if it is enough to a succesful team, (within an orc, orc, lizard, new norse, human league me with a necromantic team) but i think my ...will be kicked
edit: i forgot to mention, that the nerfed apo has now two skills, so its not as weak as it was before compared to regen. |
Last edited by z3d on %b %26, %2006 - %21:%Jan; edited 2 times in total |
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Meech
Joined: Sep 15, 2005
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Jan 26, 2006 - 21:13 |
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To people starting new Necro teams. Give out of bound kicks to the FG. Let them score early when you are building the team. There will be cases when this isn't possible, but against some of the "weaker" elf teams you should be able to score a TD or too to get them rolling. This is all in theory though. Maybe I will retire my Necro team and try it out. |
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zerkalo
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
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Jan 27, 2006 - 12:54 |
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My experience is that werewolves suck. I have played 17 games with necros and 3 players have died - all have been werewolves.
With my new necro team, zombies have been by far most valuable.
Block & cas statistics:
Wights 99 - 2
Werewolves 68 – 0
Zombies 61 - 4
Flesh Golem 29 – 0
Ghouls 12 – 0
So zombies have been 7 times more effective than others (cas with every 15th block vs every 100th block).
7 of the 8 mvps have been gone to zombies. I have 3 dirty player zombies and I have made 14 cas with 52 fouls (about 75% of them with dp). 6 cas with blocks and 1 with crowd push.
So zombies have made 18 of my 21 cas. And have cost about 25% of my team cost... So cas/cost ratio has been about 20 times better than other players'.
Werewolf without Block has 15% risk of causing a turnover. For the price of 4 zombies that is way overpriced player as a rookie. |
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Menikmati
Joined: Jan 02, 2005
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Jan 27, 2006 - 13:39 |
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so why dont u make a zombie only team?  |
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i like cherrypicking. it helps me compensating my bad skill and lack of concentration due to excessive drug abuse. |
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Menikmati
Joined: Jan 02, 2005
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Jan 27, 2006 - 13:40 |
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yay, i have as many posts as my rats games. |
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i like cherrypicking. it helps me compensating my bad skill and lack of concentration due to excessive drug abuse. |
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Fama
Joined: Feb 09, 2005
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Jan 27, 2006 - 14:13 |
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If the werewolves suck, then don't use them. Zombies are the most valuable players? Well, try a zombie-only team. So you foul a lot with zombies and they're good? Well, this is what I think (well, agree on): http://fumbbl.com/help:ShepherdOnFouling |
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zerkalo
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
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Jan 27, 2006 - 14:22 |
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Fouling every turn with a dirty player would mean about 3 cas per game. And same would be accomplished with a claw+rsc+piling on player, if he would make a block on every turn. I don't think any skill or any skill combo is "bad", or "hurting the game". Excessive fouling, excessive mutations, excessive ag4+dodge... I wouldn't say there is excessiveness in any playing style. All try to make as good a team as possible and win with it as many games as possible, with as big difference as possible... Fouling is a good tactic for many teams. |
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Fama
Joined: Feb 09, 2005
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Jan 27, 2006 - 14:26 |
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Yes, it's true. But the point is NOT, what is GOOD. It is, what is FUN.
I play the game, because I like it. Because I'm having fun when I play it. But if someone fouls me every turn with a dp, I don't like it. Just like I don't like spawncamping (and any camping in some games). Then the game isn't fun. You can say "well, stop playing", but come on, have some decency. |
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z3d
Joined: Apr 16, 2005
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Jan 27, 2006 - 14:37 |
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wolves are the best in necro team. i used the full potentional of them, and they died again and again.
now my tactic is based on keeping the wolves alive, almost all cost. when they needed, i use them, but not always, and this is where the other players come. i got 3 block and one guard zombies and they hold the line for the ghouls and the wolves - the scoring and cas machines. if 2 of these 4 players are on the pitch, the team can win. if not, they loose. but the other players are the damage soaking of the team, they must be skilled. |
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stormmaster1
Joined: May 26, 2005
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Jan 27, 2006 - 15:59 |
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About the "bash or AG" point: necros are generally a running side, as opposed to out and out bash or AG/passing play. Offensively they run the ball rather than pass, but only have to get their ghouls/wolves 5 squares into the opposition half before they can get to the EZ. This makes them quite flexible, as they can do 4 turn running plays v dwarfs and watch the short ones struggle to equalise, or take longer to score v weaker teams to pound/foul them into the turf. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Jan 27, 2006 - 18:39 |
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| Fama wrote: | Yes, it's true. But the point is NOT, what is GOOD. It is, what is FUN.
I play the game, because I like it. Because I'm having fun when I play it. But if someone fouls me every turn with a dp, I don't like it. Just like I don't like spawncamping (and any camping in some games). Then the game isn't fun. You can say "well, stop playing", but come on, have some decency. |
Fair points: but please apply them consistently to one-turners, Claw/RSC, and the usual suspects. Fouling doesn't warrant being picked out for a special classification: there are several other tactics that are equally objectionable (from the point of view as expressed in Shepherd's article) as being comparable to 'camping'. |
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Fama
Joined: Feb 09, 2005
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Jan 27, 2006 - 18:51 |
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Very true; but it is a lot easier to get loads of dp's, or just 2-3 and foul the hell of the opponent, as opposed to rolling 2 doubles, or whatever it takes to be an OT. And while it might not be that hard, OT's are often fairly easy to (at least try) to take out, and the rest of their team suffers.
Now, back on the topic.
I haven't played very much with necro's, but I rather like them. My experience is from tr 100-125 or so, and they're pretty good with the claw, flesh golems, and cheap zombies. Of course, I haven't really had any ghouls, but from my experience with undead, ghouls are pretty good. If they stay alive, that is. |
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Imerikol
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
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Jan 27, 2006 - 19:17 |
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I personally would dump Undead in favors of necros where Mummies lose G access. Wights gaining S isn't enough, and also helps necros. |
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Ungamarax
Joined: Dec 28, 2005
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Jan 27, 2006 - 19:18 |
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Of course necros are good at low tr - notice for instance that it is one of rare teams that[on a 'good' build] have TS>100 on tr100? [not that fumbbl ts formula is holy grail or anything, but it is fairly accurate outside of stynty teams] They can bash away against fairly everything and go for 2 turn tdS.
Problem with them is generally the same as with all undead teams - no appo means that at larger tr one lucky block will put away your developed positional player for good, and have in mind also that those players needs at least one double on a skill roll to be really effective 
That is my experience so far with them [i have necros and undead for tabletop ] - they work just fine until you start losing positional players, when that happens team starts to cave in as it is not exactly easy skilling up new positional player with low ag and average bashing potential on tr150+
Lots of DP 'tactics' is best left to teams that can take more of the same gameplan - ie where you have acces to regen\appo on each player if necessary. Not to mention you will have a some trouble finding opponent with a middle of the road team that will play them on fumbbl. |
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