maxlongstreet
Joined: Oct 18, 2005
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Feb 24, 2006 - 18:09 |
 
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I've noticed that 99% of strategy posts on this and other forums deal with specific, limited issues such as:
1) skill choice and/or team development
2) defensive set-ups
3) one turn touchdowns
4) two turn touchdowns with speedy races
5) stalling and fouling (usually in the context of whether they are fair or legitimate, not in how to use them strategically)
While these issues have importance, they probably comprise about 10% of the important strategy decisions you make in a game. Aside from a few dusty diagrams on three-year old websites, there's little strategy discussions on the meat and potatoes mid-game issues that win or lose blood bowl games, apart from vague generalities.
The reason for this post is to call for more of this kind of discussion and to point to what I consider the most important weakness in most players that I've seen.
I don't mean to talk down to people as any kind of an expert--I'm new to the game, and I amaze myself at how many blunders I make all the time, including the stupidest kind--miscalculating blocks, moving through tackle zones I don't see, etc.
However, I think I do one thing well--My play is always about the ball. So many I players I see seem to think the point of the game is to throw as many two die blocks as possible. Now, there's obviously nothing wrong with two die blocks, but when players use players to set up blocks that could be protecting a vulnerable ball carrier, or threatening the opposing ball carrier, then it's gone too far. On a similar note, players seem reluctant to extensively mark opposing players, probably for fear of opening themselves up to too many of the aforementioned two die blocks. Since Fumbbl creates long term team development that's not usually found in the board game, I think one reason for overemphasis on the blocking battle is team survival.
What do others think about this? |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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Feb 24, 2006 - 21:16 |
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Marking players is not a very good tactic with AV 7. This I have come to know with very painful ways.
Playing the ball should always be the #1 issue and I think that is the reason why it is rarely discussed, we all think we know it already 
Love the ball! |
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MiBasse
Joined: Dec 04, 2004
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Feb 24, 2006 - 21:21 |
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With elves (especially those of AV7) and other light teams keeping up numbers is essential to be able to pressure the opposition without resorting to lucky dodges, leaps and 2d blocks against and as such it's a good idea to minimize blocks against your players. One of the best ways to remain in the game is to have 11 players on the field at all times.
I do love sticking worthless fodder to mummies and the like and watch the 100k+ players block themselves further and further away from the action and find themselves stranded after having spend 4 turns hitting a worthless 0SPPs lino (who of course proved to be not so worthless in the end). Obviously this is a far better tactic with AV8 + linos. Though cheap ones do well too. |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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Feb 24, 2006 - 21:28 |
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Strategy is something that is hard to teach or explain in my opinion. Alot of things I do well in game I dont even know Im doing well, and have just picked up along the way... likewise with my flaws. I learnt bb from playing too much (thanks fumbbl!) and gradually picked good things up from people I played (conversley I'd like to think that people had picked up on some of the things I do). I suppose I could give a crash guide to my strategy, but it wouldnt be very comprehensive or useful to anyone else... I believe positioning of players is the single most important thing, and thats hard to teach. |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 24, 2006 - 21:35 |
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yeah, with Humans I go crazy for the ball, Id rather get the ball and score than bash you in the hope I get a KO, so many things you can do to maximise this, see my chainpushing guide that went up in Specialist Games today! people swamp the ball, i just plug the gaps and move 2 of them out of the way with a chainpush/powsetting up chainpushes to get a reciever out of a tacklezone when my opponent thought he had me well covered and id be needing to dodge with Diving Tackle.
Plenty of phychological tactics come into play as well, a weighted Chevron defence with a short kick to one side can leave the offence in a world of pain!
I like tying up players and forcing them into one dice blocks with my rookie linemen, as there is a substantial bash mentality the opponent will usually fall for it, and will block my lino rather tan using the player to protect the ball, this makes me want to really take a Human team and play lots and lots, but dont have a good solid bit of time  also like using my Ogre to tie 3 linemen up, so he will usually bring in an assist to take him down, get pushbacks and hopefully try again!
You get the impression I dont mind telling my secrets! |
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Meech
Joined: Sep 15, 2005
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Feb 24, 2006 - 21:46 |
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I like playing the ball as well, but if I can get a clean hit on your one blodger with my one tackle player, or hit the guy with the ball, I may just go after the blodger depending on how early in the game it is. |
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Putting the FU in fumbbl since 9/2005 |
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Captain1821
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
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Feb 24, 2006 - 21:47 |
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The best strategy is to sharpen your dice before the game and roll better than your opponent during the game  |
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maxlongstreet
Joined: Oct 18, 2005
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Feb 24, 2006 - 22:08 |
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Obviously marking works best the higher your AV is, which is one reason I think orcs are broken--Cheap AV 9 means you can mark all the time. However, I mark all the time with DE also--AV 8 with blodge works too. |
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Ug
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 24, 2006 - 22:08 |
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Reroll usage is a key element of strategy that distinguishes players' skill level.
When to use a re-roll and when to let a failed die roll stand are keys to controlling the risk factors in a game. Deciding whether to use a reroll should take into account factors like turn #, probability of success, # of rerolls, likelihood of overtime (in the second half of tournament games), criticality of the roll, ball vulnerability, number of players remaining to move, scoring opportunities, reserves & KO situation, likelihood of injury, and current score.
Many new players with low TR teams often spend their rerolls far too early in a half. Keeping one RR in reserve, opens up many opportunities that wouldn't exist otherwise. |
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Leto
Joined: Nov 28, 2004
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Feb 24, 2006 - 22:16 |
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The key to marking players is knowing who to mark when. I would not mark a strong blocker with an elf, or anyone really except another strong blocker. Not only because I don't want my player to get hurt, but because the strong blocking types are not usually the target of passes or handoffs. They want you to stand next to them so they can bash you. However, a blitzer or catcher who is an obvious target to receive the ball should be marked with at least one player. That -1 to receive can mean a turnover and give you the ball, especially on AG3 teams. The obvious target may just be a diversion, but if you don't mark him he will be a serious threat to score.
I also try to mark potential blitzers, when I'm on offense. If they have to make a dodge to get at my ball carrier, then that is one more roll that could fail.
I agree that FUMBBL has unnaturally long-lived teams that will never occur playing the board game, and this changes people's strategy quite a bit. Playing in a short table-top league, you don't have time to try to skill up every player on the team. Your team will never get to 100 games. They will be lucky to get over 200 TR, which on FUMBBL is just the beginning of team development.
With my high elf team, I put my lion warriors in constant danger. But it pays off, as I have the highest scoring team in the league after 7 games, and they are undefeated. (The skaven may surpass me by the end of the season, as they have a 1 turn scorer now, but that's besides the point).
On the other hand, sometimes maximizing the number and strength of your blocks is an important strategy, not for long term team life but for the short term winning of the game. Outnumbering the other team makes it much harder for them to protect the ball. It opens up opportunities for you to stop a fast team on offense, when you can outnumber their potential catchers two to one, outnumber them on the LOS, and still have someone available to go after the ball. Of course this "strategy" depends more on luck than others, because there is never a guarantee that you will break armor, however many dice you block with. I experience this frequently, just about any time I have tried to play a bashing team. My chaos teams have been some of the least violent in blood bowl history, I think, and not on purpose. *lol* That claw is not meant for just stunning people, but that's all it does.
Because of the high degree of luck, I don't assume I will be able to reduce my opponent's numbers, no matter what team I have. So again, it comes down to playing the ball, even with an orc or chaos team. Blocks are made for the purpose of making a path for the ball and those that protect the ball. Protecting the ball is more important than ganging up on the LOS. I'd rather have even strength, man to man, than to gang up on someone and leave the ball even the slightest bit vulnerable. (Of course, the best laid plans can be overturned by the dice) |
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maxlongstreet
Joined: Oct 18, 2005
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Feb 24, 2006 - 22:31 |
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Leto, you talk about marking on defense, but I mark on offense all the time. One of the best ways to assure that my cage or side wall of players is undisturbed is to mark key blitzers. In a line of scrimmage wall, players can still dodge off for blitzes, so a player coming around the backside of the line to touch everyone can cut off pursuit. Sometimes of course, you can put them just off the line of scrimmage and have the same effect. |
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Altheus
Joined: Sep 16, 2005
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Feb 24, 2006 - 23:01 |
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When I'm playing my lizards I notice that people with bashy teams put untold effort in to getting 2 dice blocks on my front row (1 Kroxigor and 2 Saurui) This will typically tie up 4-6 of his players. I then mark those closest to the action with sauri and zip some skinks past the line with the ball.
I can imagine the look on peoples faces when that happens.
To quote Sun Tzu "Know your enemy and know yourself and in 100 battles you will not fall".
It applies
Altheus. |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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Feb 24, 2006 - 23:08 |
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| Altheus wrote: | When I'm playing my lizards I notice that people with bashy teams put untold effort in to getting 2 dice blocks on my front row (1 Kroxigor and 2 Saurui) This will typically tie up 4-6 of his players. I then mark those closest to the action with sauri and zip some skinks past the line with the ball.
I can imagine the look on peoples faces when that happens.
To quote Sun Tzu "Know your enemy and know yourself and in 100 battles you will not fall".
It applies
Altheus. |
Surely they go hell for leather to kill your skinks? I mean, everyone does that right? Saurus ag1, they aint doing too much ball handling. |
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Nuffle Sucks!!!
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vanGorn
Joined: Feb 24, 2004
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Feb 24, 2006 - 23:25 |
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The funny thing is, while I have stored a lot of setups in my client I still cannot overcome my affinity to set up manually.  |
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HouseT
Joined: Nov 07, 2005
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Feb 24, 2006 - 23:38 |
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One of the hardest things I learned playing this game is knowing when to leave well enough alone. Sometimes the small decisions turn out much bigger in the long run. When you're debating whether to dodge out a player to give you extra defense on your ball carrier or throw a one die block on the guy he/she's covering, sometimes the best answer is to do nothing.
When I'm on offense I try to keep the ball clear of defenders and covered. After that, I try to put at least one of my players on or in the wya of any opposing player capable of reaching the ballcarrier. My basic philosophy on offense (and defense, too) is to force my opponent to make as many die rolls as possible to accomplish anything productive. Eventually, something has to fail and produce an opening. If not, then at least I did everything I possibly could to press the issue.
Sometimes, I don't even care if my opponent does everything they wanted to on their turn because I accomplished some other secondary goal like forcing them to burn a reroll. What I'm learning (and trying to apply to my game to make my win/loss record a little better ) is that the more consistent you make your play style and game choices, the better off your games will go.
And to this day, I shake my head at how dedicated some coaches are to throwing as many two-die blocks as possible at the expense of scoring or covering the ball. I played some dwarves once with my Amazons, and the dwarf player (with a clear man advantage and an easy path to the goal line) opted to run the ball carrier next to the only player I had in the open and blitz with a Troll Slayer. Said blitz required GFIs that weren't made. Now mind you, the dwarves did eventually score, but it was a case of making life much more difficult than it had to be. |
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