Symmetrical
Joined: Jan 15, 2005
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 Posted:
Mar 06, 2006 - 17:35 |
 
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Has anyone seen What the Bleep do we know?
Quantum physics is my new religion. It's going to take alot of Sunday School before I understand what it is I'm even worshipping. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Mar 06, 2006 - 17:47 |
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BB-Pad. Again, I really don't care, but I was looking at the idea that al life derived from a (or a very small group of) common ancestor(s). I come from a philosophy background, and the presumption that a process observed within a few species is responsible for the development of all life is not really good deduction or induction. I guess not having a definition of the topic being discussed is even worse, logically speaking.... Some science type wanna give me a solid definition if Evolution (NOT natural selection, which has been proven endlessly, and which applies with perfect logic to anyone with a basic understanding of heredity)
P.S. I realize I never responded to the original post. The basic answer is: No... Converting to a Hinduist/Buddhist World view is not really going to work for Monotheists or athiests. I could just as easily say that people should belief what I do. I have no problems with both ideas being true... os everyone adopt my belief system and be happy! |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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IRSWalker
Joined: Jan 27, 2006
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Mar 06, 2006 - 18:09 |
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| Macavity wrote: | | ...A Theory that is un-testable, and has no solid statement of dis-proof. Due to the lack of a hypothetical dis-proof, it can be maintained on "faith", that is un-assaultable.... |
Scientific theories are never proven to be true, but can be disproven. So you've rather tautologically shown that the Theory of Evolution is......erm......a theory! |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Mar 06, 2006 - 18:16 |
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Um...... no...... That's exactly what I said. No disproof exists, therefore it is not a theory. |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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MickeX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2006 - 18:24 |
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What do you mean, "untestable"? If one day we find remains of the rocket ship that took makind to earth - or proof of whatever alternative explanation - evolution theory would be wrong to say we developed from apes (at least not from the apes of earth...). |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2006 - 18:24 |
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How can evolution be disproven?
Find a rabbit skeleton in a cretaceous time-frame. |
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Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day; set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Mar 06, 2006 - 18:36 |
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See, Mezir, I've gone there, but all that means is that the order of events or species appearance has been mis-interpreted, and needs to be re-thought, it doesn't de-bunk the idea. |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Gatts
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
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Mar 06, 2006 - 18:57 |
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ok.. so basically, it is possible to prove or disprove wheter evolution theoretically could explain life as we see it today, but we can not prove if evolution IS, in fact, responsible for life.
If so then i am fully satisfied with that.
Edit: Upon reading this i felt the need to clarify my point a little.
Evolution as a mechanism, is, I am confident to say very much testable and provable. There are known examples and the molecular and cellular thingys involved in evolution are well known.
If the peoblem that rmeains is simply the claim that: sure evolution works but we dont know if that's what actually made this mess.. then well.. such arguments could be applied to any statement whatsoever
Me: The eart rotatates around the sun because of gravitational pull!
(not my area of expertise so i guess there'äs a much better way of explaining it)
You: Well, sure gravity could explain it, buw how do you know it's actually gravity at work here, could be something else.
etc etc etc |
Last edited by Gatts on %b %06, %2006 - %19:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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PandaPower
Joined: Aug 17, 2005
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Mar 06, 2006 - 19:01 |
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| Quote: |
the Theory of Evolution
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If the Darwin called it a theory... doesn't it logically follow that it IS a theory? I'm assuming here that none of us are claiming that we are indeed smarter than Darwin here... |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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Mar 06, 2006 - 19:09 |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Mar 06, 2006 - 19:11 |
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Darwin's actual has been dis-proven. We are not saying we are smarter, but there is a much larger base of information on genetics to work with now. Darwin theorized that the changes made to an individual during their lifetime would effect the genetic material they passed on (to put it REALLY simply), a fellow named Lanark refined that a LONG LONG time ago.
Plato thought the world was flat, I'm not claiming to be smarter than him when I say it's not. |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2006 - 19:16 |
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Wow, I thought people had gone beyond trying to use "it's just a theory"... But I guess not. |
_________________
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day; set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Mar 06, 2006 - 19:21 |
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I'm not trying to... at all. I hope you aren't referring to me, Mez. I'm debating whether is is a theory, not that theories can't be true |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2006 - 19:21 |
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There's also the Russian (Anarchist) variation of the Evolution Theory that doesn't focus on "survival of the fittest" but "survival of those that co-operate with their surroundings best". Both work logically for me.
Or to do it the other way round, if it'd really be only about "survival of the fittest" wouldn't all the prey have developed so advanced defence mechanisms that the hunters (who'd take longer to adept) wouldn't be able to manage to snatch any of them?
Science assumes, at it' core, that the human brain is able to understand/explain the world coherently , or rather that the human perception is broad enough to understand the very system we are part of completely (and if by using theories). I am not so certain we are capable of that, ever.
That science is so much more changeable then religion is another thing I am a little in disagreement about. Religions did adept to new situations and changes of perception too. Science does so more frequently, maybe, but it sure doesn't accept change willingly, often.
-Mnemon |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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Mar 06, 2006 - 19:32 |
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Lamarck ... and of course he is outdated as well.
I wonder what kind of Chuzpe is needed to argue against Darwin and his claims. His knowledge is outdated. Noone would argue that Newton was all wrong etc., just because we nowadays (!) based on his theories (!!!!!!) have more knowledge and refined theories.
Also, i disagree with the statement "the presumption that a process observed within a few species is responsible for the development of all life is not really good deduction or induction." I think that kind of procedure is generally called Occam's razor: If we have one procedure which has been shown to exist in one case and that procedure can explain the same effect in similar cases, then it is smart to assume that there is no second procedure - as long as no new evidence for a second procedure comes up.
I mean, we know how the sun works. Should we now assume that all stars work like that, or should we claim that the big red stars actually work very differently? |
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