| Poll |
| Is the gate on the picture open, closed, all at once or half open/closed? |
| Open |
|
39% |
[ 47 ] |
| Closed |
|
5% |
[ 6 ] |
| It's all at once |
|
8% |
[ 10 ] |
| It's half open, half closed |
|
47% |
[ 57 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 120 |
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Adar
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 21:05 |
 
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| f_alk wrote: | Ahm ... from the quantum point of view there is a difference between the last two options.
There we have the difference between:
- a state that has an even distribution of two possibilities (a "mixture": half open, half closed)
- a state that is evenly distributed over these two possibilities (a "superposition": all at once)
If you measure either of the two by one of the possibilities (open or closed), you can't differ them by the results. But, if you measure them by "themselves", then the second state can give rise to strange effects: interferences of the pathways (open or closed). This then can lead to states which is fully closed or fully opened. |
But that only works on size scales where the particle size is small enough to get decently close to their wave length. I'm not sure but I think that the gate is just abit too large to cause that kind of situation.
| DX wrote: |
To go back the example you can claim a gate is open and closed, i.e. the gate is unlocked but it is completely shut. You have to clarify the parameters you are disscussing to be sure your message is understood. |
You can't make that claim without first proving that there is a lock and that the lock is open while the gate is shut. The parimeters are what you see and what you know, just like in real life. |
_________________
For all his rage, he's still just a rat in it's cage. |
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Adar
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 21:09 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: | | Got to say Taffsider, though i have enjoyed all your recent posts on the subject, didn't i deal with this efectively on page 1 of evolution v hocuspocus? |
Yes I thought so too but certain people didn't seem to take notice so I took the liberty to make a new thread on the subject and included pretty pictures  . |
_________________
For all his rage, he's still just a rat in it's cage. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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| Taffsadar wrote: |
A) Our god is the only true god becuase our holy book says so.
B) Our god is the only true god becuase our holy book says so
C) Some parts of A and B:s holy books are true but they are actually the same thing.
This quite obviously is three different religions.
Religion D could however not claim "Both A and B:s religions are true becuase the holy books says so" becuase both A and B:s religions clearly claims to be exclusivly true. Becuase by claiming that both are true are they actually claming that both are untrue. In essence they are nothing but religion C that tries to sound polemic. |
and
| Quote: | To draw a classic simple annalogy for you:
Person A worships X
Person B worships Y
person C says 'Hey A and B, X and Y are basically the same thing. Lets call it Z and worship that'
person C belives they are offering consensus and including A and B. But persons A and B belive they are being excluded, as C is rejecting their beliefs (by expanding them in C's view) and worse still telling them that their beliefs are part of an entirely different and rejected belief. They find this usually more offensive than their own dissagreement, ie: We think its X, they think its Y but it sure as hell isnt both of them, and called Z.
At this stage there is usually a war. Or two.
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At least i got a joke in.
Is your real name Dan Brown? |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 21:12 |
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Purple, I've told you once and I'll tell you twice: Man, I admire you for your intellect and reasoning, but sometimes you're a bit harsh to other people 
That remark thou, was only funny. |
_________________
My post count
Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so. |
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hauge
Joined: Oct 23, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 21:15 |
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wow - my head can't take all this serious thinking... my head's gonna explode...
/me is going to get very very drunk |
_________________
-Hauge |
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Adar
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 21:17 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: |
Is your real name Dan Brown? |
Lets pretend that it in fact is my real name. Does it make you feel better Mr Schultz? |
_________________
For all his rage, he's still just a rat in it's cage.
Last edited by Adar on %b %07, %2006 - %22:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 21:21 |
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If you think about it logically, you can only answer A) the gate is open.
Reasoning:
Closed is defined strictly. Among all positions, this gate can have, only one position is called closed. The rest of the positions are therefore "not closed" - commonly known as "open".
You can clearly see that the gate is not closed.
Therefore it must be open.
From this logic you can easily see, that there is no such thing as half closed door or a glas that is half empty because empty and closed are defined by an absolute lack of something (opening or water). There is no such thing as a half lack of something. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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Worry not my friend. I have a strong and robust sense of self. My ego looks after itself, complaining only of the need for more room.
I was merely trying to bring a little levity. Not claim any superiority in any sense.
I should have added smileys. So here's some:
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 21:23 |
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No photograph can tell the truth.
The gate could easily be fully open - yet the interior wall could be a two-tone paint job, with the bottom 1/3 black and the top 2/3 painted the exact same color as the gate. If the sun was in the right position it would create the still frame illusion of a 2/3 closed gate even though it is open all the way to the top.
Then the question becomes: Was the gate and interior wall painted that way intentionally, or is it a coincidence? Was it done intentionally to create an optical illusion, or simply to co-ordinate the color scheme? Was the photo taken with the intent of fooling the viewer, or was the uncertainy only revealed when the photo was developed and viewed for the first time?*
*hint: say, does this tie in philosophically at all with what has been discussed previously? |
_________________
***Did you know? 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot? |
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Adar
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 21:25 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: | Worry not my friend. I have a strong and robust sense of self. My ego looks after itself, complaining only of the need for more room.
I was merely trying to bring a little levity. Not claim any superiority in any sense.
I should have added smileys. So here's some:
|
You didn't answer my question. Would it make you feel better if I was Dan Brown? *Looks Freudian* |
_________________
For all his rage, he's still just a rat in it's cage. |
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Menikmati
Joined: Jan 02, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 21:27 |
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| CircularLogic wrote: | If you think about it logically, you can only answer A) the gate is open.
Reasoning:
Closed is defined strictly. Among all positions, this gate can have, only one position is called closed. The rest of the positions are therefore "not closed" - commonly known as "open".
You can clearly see that the gate is not closed.
Therefore it must be open.
From this logic you can easily see, that there is no such thing as half closed door or a glas that is half empty because empty and closed are defined by an absolute lack of something (opening or water). There is no such thing as a half lack of something. |
i can enter, but i cant park my car... |
_________________
i like cherrypicking. it helps me compensating my bad skill and lack of concentration due to excessive drug abuse. |
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MiBasse
Joined: Dec 04, 2004
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 21:28 |
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| CircularLogic wrote: | If you think about it logically, you can only answer A) the gate is open.
Reasoning:
Closed is defined strictly. Among all positions, this gate can have, only one position is called closed. The rest of the positions are therefore "not closed" - commonly known as "open".
You can clearly see that the gate is not closed.
Therefore it must be open.
From this logic you can easily see, that there is no such thing as half closed door or a glas that is half empty because empty and closed are defined by an absolute lack of something (opening or water). There is no such thing as a half lack of something. |
While I basically agree with you "full" and "open" is by definition the lack of void and lack of material respectively and you could not have a glass that is half full (half full of lack of void) or a door that is half open etc. As such we would have a glass of nothing ? Has the glass that is not full nor empty found a zen like state which men can only envy it?  |
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Kedlav
Joined: Sep 01, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 21:49 |
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My calculations show almost two thirds closed, one third open. Screw all you philosophic people, cold hard figures win!
(dropped 99 pixels from approximate midpoint lengthwise of door to where door ends, then 50 pixels to where ground is relatively perpendicular to bisection line--obviously, there's a margin for error based off of lighting, perspective, etc., but I'd say its at worst 60/40, so fix your poll!) |
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Buddy
Joined: Mar 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 22:08 |
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Has it actually occured to any one else it's not a gate, It's a god damn garage door!!!
Edit: I just read the bottom link in Red Fishs' signature and wow, in a weird way it's kinda moving, I mean A F****** Men to that man!!! |
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Plorg
Joined: May 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 07, 2006 - 22:26 |
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| Taffsadar wrote: | | Terms like "open" or "closed" are absolute in their definition. |
This statement is incorrect.
The gate in the picture lowers/rises vertically and can cover from 0% to 100% of the opening. This gate is about 66% closed. To impose an evaluation of a binary yes/no condition of whether the gate is open or closed requires a reference of perspective.
Let's assume the gate is around 6 meters high.
From the perspective of a cat or dog, this gate is open.
From the perspective of a semi trailer truck, this gate is definitely not open.
Eat that, absolutists! |
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