Flynn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Mar 15, 2006 - 03:46 |
 
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so recently i had a discussion with someone who took claw on a rookie rat ogre on a young skaven team
i asked him for his reasoning because i was curious as block seems such a better choice to me, but i wanted to see his view point
he said that claw would provide his rat ogre with more spps and more armor breaks both of which i disagree with
my argument is this, block allows your rat ogre (or minotaur) to stay standing more often, and makes them more reliable both of which will net you more blocks per game
these extra blocks along with being able to take a both down result without turning over allow your mighty blow more opportunities to get you spps and armor breaks
but this is only my opinion, because we're talking about blocks per game there is no way to realilistically run the numbers on this one so its really just personal opinion, so what do you all think? will block or claw likely provide more armor breaks/spps per game for a rookie rat ogre or minotaur? (i would include beasts of nurgle but they dont have frenzy which is an important part of this discussion as it gives more opportunity for a blockless player to cause a TO and more opportunity to get a knock down) |
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HunterX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 15, 2006 - 04:05 |
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I haven't voted yet, but I did think of one point. Pro would also allow you to make more blocks instead of just standing there roaring mightily. Claw is nice, but it's reserve that for a player that has more going for it and less drawbacks (i.e. no Block, no rerolls, and frenzy can be detrimental as well if you can't cover your player). The block skill speaks volumes for itself and it's hard to argue against. It's one more die roll in your favor especially in the early game where most non-positionals don't have it yet. |
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hoiyes
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
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Mar 15, 2006 - 04:15 |
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A big guy with Claw and no Block probably won't survive until his next skill, especially considering Frenzy and the low AV (comparitively.) |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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Mar 15, 2006 - 04:40 |
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why not make it RSC - that will probably deal out more cas then claw (considering skaven tend to be able to get games against elves & the like), and hence more SPP.
I'd say that block will get him more SPP still, because he'll still be standing to deal out the blocks. |
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bampf
Joined: Nov 06, 2003
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Mar 15, 2006 - 04:41 |
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I m the dissenter here. At ST 5 rarely does frenzy get you in trouble.
Typically I ll target non blockers and take a both down result with a Claw MB player. I would argue that claw will get you considerably more SPP than Block. At least early on. Granted, it ll get you more Turnovers as well, but wise game management means Big Guys are going at the end of your turn most of the time anyway. |
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Flynn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 15, 2006 - 04:41 |
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i would have included rsc but the other thing the coach wanted from the player was armor breaks as it says in the post so i didnt include rsc |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Mar 15, 2006 - 04:52 |
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If you want to cause more damage - claw is the way to go. If you play ST3-races you get 3d if you really try for it - that gives a decent knockdownrate, especially if you are not afraid to blitz.
I still would prefer block - but block usually does NOT increase the dmg the WA deal - just reduces the turnovers. |
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Patrician
Joined: Sep 14, 2005
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Mar 15, 2006 - 05:23 |
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Definately block. Block helps protect the big guy from being knocked over and means more options when attacking non-blocked players.
You already have MB for added injury, and Claw/RSC will just make him more of a target for fouls. Also, Claw/RSC equals less opponents in Ranked games, as all the AV7 teams avoid you  . |
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Arcon
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
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Mar 15, 2006 - 08:46 |
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Block is the best of the choices given. Th BG is for giving more than one opposing player something to work on. Not for hugging SPPs (not saying a good developed BG isn´t worth the effort...). And a turn over is the worst thing that can happen to you.
You can also consider Tentacles. Especially if you play against those dodgy elves. And even if you do not block in fear of a turn over, you might be able to trap 2 or 3 of them.. |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Mar 15, 2006 - 09:03 |
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I would personally always choose Block, since I think it's the better skill.
But....
The answer to the question is: Claw!
Why? Taking claw WILL get the big guy more CAS than block will, and since the question was not what the best skill is, but what skill wil get more SPP, I voted Claw. |
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Curro
Joined: Jun 07, 2005
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Mar 15, 2006 - 09:06 |
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lord_real
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 15, 2006 - 09:06 |
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| Quote: |
Also, Claw/RSC equals less opponents in Ranked games, as all the AV7 teams avoid you
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That is extremly tue. And it would be nice to actually se a rat ogre without claw some day.  |
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Tommi
Joined: May 17, 2004
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Mar 15, 2006 - 09:20 |
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I -guess- block increases knockdowns about 16% + avoided bothdown results maybe 4% more = 20%. That goes directly to increased cas too.
Claw increases broken armour about 16% - what you would have gotten anyway cause of MB.
So there's a slight difference in favor of block + it's more reliable.
I did the math in my head, and it may not be accurate, but Im quite sure it's still in the favor of block.
Someone chatted about 3-die blocks, but I rarely see experienced coaches go for those, unless it's clearly a won game. |
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Silver
Joined: Mar 14, 2004
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Mar 15, 2006 - 09:26 |
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Here is a totally different suggestion for a double roll on a mino or ro: Tentacles!!!! it won't give you the blocks mentioned but it will probably bind players from the fight and there is more room for the liitle ones. |
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Gitzbang
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 15, 2006 - 09:27 |
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Hmmm ... if you want an Alternative for Block, i'd go Tentacles. He can be useful without having to Block and thus risk Turnovers. |
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