def909
Joined: Oct 25, 2005
|
 Posted:
Mar 26, 2006 - 18:26 |
 
|
I just did a forum search and didn´t find anything on this topic so I´ll ask this question:
I was wondering which skill/trait offers the best protection for a player? Let´s rule out block, since it´s the most basic skill. If I roll doubles for a player that can mutate three choices come to mind: dodge, foul appearance and spikes.
If a blodger is blocked with 2 dice, the chance of getting hit is 11/36 instead of 20/36 if he only had block. However, he´ll be a frequent target of tacklers, so often dodge won´t be any use. With FA 1/6 of all blocks can´t be made against him. Spikes reduce break armor rates (for example from 6/36 to 3/36 for a CW and from 10/36 to 6/36 for a BM if he is blocked by a non mb/claw player. Numbers change when the blocking player has mb or claw - I´ll let you do the math). |
|
|
Frankenstein
Joined: Jan 26, 2005
|
| Posted:
Mar 26, 2006 - 18:35 |
|
Spikes is utter crap. Just imagine 2 otherwise identical teams, one team comes with MB on all players, the other one with Spikes.
Dodge with AG 4+ (or perhaps STR 4+), otherwise FA. Might also depend on the teams you play against (Dodge in a dwarvish environment would suck). |
|
|
def909
Joined: Oct 25, 2005
|
| Posted:
Mar 26, 2006 - 18:39 |
|
| Farinroderel wrote: | Spikes is utter crap. Just imagine 2 otherwise identical teams, one team comes with MB on all players, the other one with Spikes.
|
That´s true of course, but the question was which skill/mutation offers the best protection for a single player. I´m not sure if spikes is all that bad, you have to factor in that when this guy is blocked by a mb player (not unlikely) even if he´s hit the mb is more likely to get used on the armour roll which helps him not get hurt... |
|
|
pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
|
| Posted:
Mar 26, 2006 - 18:49 |
|
The problem with Dodge for Chaos is that they have no 'natural' dodgers - ie players who start with Dodge - and many, many other good choices on doubles. So the opponent's Tacklers will tend only to have one target (if any). High ST Dodgers can work, since the player who is strong enough to block you (or in the right position to get the right assists to do so) may not also have Tackle.
For Skaven, the opposing Tacklers should be chasing your Gutters around, so Dodge becomes a decent choice for SVs and Linerats. I'd still go for FA, partly because its secondary effect is often overlooked by opponents, but mainly because I only run no-Gutter Skaven teams ... |
_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi  |
|
Panda_
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
|
| Posted:
Mar 26, 2006 - 18:56 |
|
I've done the maths.
For Ar7, let's say that you have X % to be casualted (with or without MB, it makes no difference after).
For Ar8, let's say that you have Y % to be casualted (with or without MB, it makes no difference after).
For Ar9, let's say that you have Z % to be casualted (with or without MB, it makes no difference after).
The maths says that:
X * 5/6 < Y
Y * 5/6 >Z
So for an Ar7, it's statistically better to get FA than Spike.
But for an Ar8 or 9, it's better to get Spike.
But those statistics don't count the fact that often when the FA roll is missed, your opponents reroll it (if the block is important) or just throw you another block with the assist player. I don't really think that those statistics are to be taken at the letter. But after thinking, i would definitly chose Spike to increase the survivability (considering for Ar7 players here, this is even more true for Ar8 and 9).
To the fact that dodge can save their ass, i've a good exemple that contradicts that: My +Ag linerat rolled a double, he got Dodge. 3-4 matchs later he died. Only because opposent use their tackle to block them. |
_________________
"Rien ne sert de partir a point, il vaut mieux courir." |
|
ex-convict
Joined: Jun 28, 2005
|
| Posted:
Mar 26, 2006 - 19:17 |
|
skaven are dead already even before they step onto the pitch: there's no skill that can save them from their doomed existance in nuffle's big cheesecake factory in the sky...but if you want to let em live as long as possible...go with either FA or dodge: FA since there'll be one time you'll thank yourself for taking it when it saves you, dodge to move the rat linos into assist positions (since skaven need all the help they can get strength wise). For chaos..go with dodge just to be different. |
_________________
Part of the NCBB and the NBFL.
Don't drop the soap. |
|
Voorn
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
|
| Posted:
Mar 26, 2006 - 19:28 |
|
I have not had much luck with skaven. 
For chaos however, dodge is a fairly good choice (Of course getting one or two fa would be good just for the secondary effect). With your cw, dodge can help simply because they are stronger players and will usually "get the dice" with most other players anyway. With the Beastmen, it has the added offensive bonus in blitzing when added with the horns. Then again, while tackle is prevelant in some teams, it is not in most of them so on defence, it will help you more often then not. |
_________________
Holder of the official Fumbbl titles of
1. EVIL INC 2. Evil Personified 3. Worst Coach
Gaming account self closed due to attempts to hack it and a lack of interest to play.
Immitated in chat by another member "S**n" |
|
Furious_George
Joined: Aug 13, 2005
|
| Posted:
Mar 26, 2006 - 19:38 |
|
You might consider that whilst FA has been shown to be of less value, its a wildcard skill, often you can compensate for a guy with dodge, but you cant plan ahead for failing that FA roll. Id take it all over, specially considering the wonderful effect it has on the opponents passing game. |
_________________
Dead Men dont tell tales... But they sure play a mean game of Bloodbowl.
"Hugh Mann eh? Now theres a name I can trust!"
Me Loves Futurama |
|
Tallmaris
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
|
| Posted:
Mar 26, 2006 - 19:40 |
|
I voted for dodge before reading all your opinions and the maths...
In dodge I like the fact that not only it saves me from one block result, but the fact that I can get away from my opponent either to give assists (like ex-convict said) or to simply stay away so he can be reached with a blitz only... |
_________________
There can be only ones! (HighNuffler)
Math and alcohol don't mix well... please don't drink and derive |
|
OldBugman
Joined: May 05, 2005
|
| Posted:
Mar 26, 2006 - 19:54 |
|
Lately I'm starting to think sidestep is the best defensive skill |
|
|
Patrician
Joined: Sep 14, 2005
|
| Posted:
Mar 27, 2006 - 05:03 |
|
As someone who ran up against OldBugman's sidestep crazy team, I'd support this.
But does sidestep do anything to protect a player? Single block, not really, but if you can sidestep away from a 2nd or possibly third block, then definately. |
_________________
"Get on with it!" |
|
tautology
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
|
| Posted:
Mar 27, 2006 - 05:12 |
|
The beauty of sidestep is not stepping "away" from the next block, but stepping "into" it  |
|
|
Markusen
Joined: Jan 23, 2005
|
| Posted:
Mar 27, 2006 - 05:17 |
|
I go for FA or Side Step. Dodge is useless vs Tackle, FA not.
Forget Spikes, it just protect this special player for maybe a couple of games, but does not help the team itself.
Dodge on an AG3 is not that great. Helps when the blocker has no Tackle, but to get away with this player is still risky (1/9 he misses).
FA is a great 2-functional passive skill, even when this player is prone or stunned the skill is active.
Side Step is just great for two reasons:
1. you rarely get crowd-pushed
2. you can move to the square you want when pushed back
that can move you the ball carrier, away from the next block or into the next opponent's TZ, so he has to block you, dodge away, or do just nothing. |
Last edited by Markusen on %b %27, %2006 - %05:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
|
ex-convict
Joined: Jun 28, 2005
|
| Posted:
Mar 27, 2006 - 05:18 |
|
sidestep is only good if you have 3 of them around the ball carrier works like magic |
_________________
Part of the NCBB and the NBFL.
Don't drop the soap. |
|
Emphasy
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
|
| Posted:
Mar 27, 2006 - 05:31 |
|
FA caus it rock! protective against blocks sometimes, makes it harder for oppo to make ballplay ie can lead to turnovers and less blocks done by oppo |
|
|
|
|
Gnome Roster - how a...
Search
