Oblitzamanger
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
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 Posted:
Apr 08, 2006 - 03:34 |
 
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I am playing with this team: http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=233857
I feel sorta embarrased that the team has only ever won when the opponent has conceded. (There! I said it! Don't hate on me!)
Although the User Guide advises aginst it, I already went ahead and bought a minotaur for my team, because I think that minos are lot better than trolls. When I played Orcs in league, I used a troll a few games in and found it to be incredibly inefective after about four turns into the drive, a turnover causer, and unreliable in terms of being able (or NOT being able) to make an action. At least when mino fails it's Wild Animal roll, it doesn't lose its tackle zone. However, did I made a mistake in buying the mino over the troll?
Which brings me to the reason I posted. My team (if you have not already viewed it) has 2 bulls, 6 blockers, four hobbos, and a mino with fan factor 9 and 4 re-rolls. One hobbo has block, another sure hands, and one -av. One bull has Block and the other sure hands, and 4 of my 6 blockers have guard. My question is, who should I field on offense and defense?
The arguments go like this: For offense, I pick up the ball with the sure hands bull, run downfield in a makeshift cage, and make a break for it when I'm close enough. Sometimes the cage is well developed. I have only ever scored once with a player other than a bull out of 5 scores, meaning my bulls have scored 4/5 TDs for my team (two of them were conceded TDs). The defense has both bulls deep in the backfield, ready to blitz dangerous players, and the blockers are near the front line. Hobbos cover the middle and flanks with the help of one or two blockers.
If I start on defense, should I keep the sure hands hobbo out in case my sure hands bull gets injured? Does that mean I play my -av hobbo who would be very easily injured? When do I retire that hobbo? Should I retire him now since it would bring my TR below 150, giving me +1 in the next winnings roll? When do I play my minotaur? On offense or defense only, or all the time? Who would I sit out for the mino if I play him?
Thanks a lot. I would appreciate it if you guys helped me out. Please give me specific instructions for the lineups for both offense and defense. Thanks again! |
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paulhicks wrote: I AM THE KING OF THE MONKEY PEOPLE AND I MUST SLAY THIS PRETENDER TO MY CROWN
That means you. |
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Astarael
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2006 - 03:53 |
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Set up both Bulls on the sideline unprotected and pray your opponent gets Blitz. |
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Oh my. |
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Oblitzamanger
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2006 - 03:57 |
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Come on! Be serious! Just because it is late and no one is responding to this post doesn't mean you have to spam it with crap. That was one of the worst spam messages I've ever seen, which includes all the ridiculus pie spams. I really want help, not CRAP! |
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paulhicks wrote: I AM THE KING OF THE MONKEY PEOPLE AND I MUST SLAY THIS PRETENDER TO MY CROWN
That means you. |
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spinball
Joined: Jul 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2006 - 04:16 |
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On D I find it effective to line up 3 chaos dwarfs on each side of the minotaur on the line of scrimage. After that I put 1 hobbo behind each of the end cds (when you get stand firm and guard this becomes frusterating for opponent. And put the 2 Bull Centaurs about 6-8 squares back (depending on how fast the other team is) so they can reach the LOS on a blitz and on turn one.
O is much more difficult to say, because it all depends on how the opponent lines up. So I'll give no advise on that one.
Make sure that the BC's get break tackle as soon as possible (after block). Give your other 2 CD's Mighty Blow before guard (unless doubles then stand firm). Hobbos give block, sure hands, kick (under rated but golden). Thats my 2 cents. |
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Oblitzamanger
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2006 - 04:19 |
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Thanks a lot for not posting spam, but good advice. Even with break tackle, wouldn't the bull on the Los be kinda tied down and not used to it's full effectiveness? One last thing, I like your suggestions, but isn't it geared a little towards bashy teams? Won't MB scare elves away? (Granted I will be playing more bashy teams than ballers though.) |
_________________
paulhicks wrote: I AM THE KING OF THE MONKEY PEOPLE AND I MUST SLAY THIS PRETENDER TO MY CROWN
That means you. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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ok. In no particular order.
Yes you made a mistake in buying a Mino. At your current TR it will do ok and scare the bejeezus out of most poor-average players. But the low AV means he wont stay around against decent opponents, or at higher TR and will largely be unable to do the Big Guy job, which is soaking up the hits from the opponents Big Guy. As you have alredy spotted Bulls afe for Blitzing so WA is tough to make work on a CD team.
The av7 Hobogb should go now. But you know this. A: drops your TR. B: He's crap. C: He might get more spp and you dont want that as he's crap. D: He's crap. E:He's a cas waiting to happen, might as well field 10 every drive. F: He's crap.
Get a Bull Break Tackle. Then get the other Break tackle. This is the single biggest thing that will help you win, offensively or defensivly.
On Offence use 2 Bulls, 6 CDB, a BG and 2 hobgobs.
On Deffense use 2 Bulls, 6 CDB, a BG and 2 hobgobs.
This is why you need a troll. to sit on the LOS v his BG and take the hit on deffense, or add guard (and then start taking the hit turn 2) against his BG on offense.
Both ways the CDB do the hard LOS work and try and create the holes for the bulls, the hobgobs add assists and try not to die too quickly. The BG ties up his BG and the Bulls do everything, especially blitzes and scores. Try and cage the occasional touchback CDB TD when you can. let the hobgobs get occasional ones, and dont be afraid to commit one bull to the LOS fight if needed. Break Tackle should get him back out if you need him and one bull can cover the entire pitch if he stays out of the side zones.
In Tournaments Hire Hthark and use 1 less hobgob, and learn to fear wizards. |
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Plorg
Joined: May 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2006 - 04:27 |
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| Oblitzamanger wrote: | | However, did I made a mistake in buying the mino over the troll? |
I like Trolls better than Minos.
Trolls as LoS damage sinks don't have to do much other than stand next to people. They don't Blitz, and if they Block they Block last.
Minos are unreliable as well, especially if you only need them to move and not make an attack.
Minos dominate your Blitz actions as Big Guys, which are the actions usually in the most crucial need of rerolls.
| Oblitzamanger wrote: | | If I start on defense, should I keep the sure hands hobbo out in case my sure hands bull gets injured? |
Yes.
| Oblitzamanger wrote: | | Does that mean I play my -av hobbo who would be very easily injured? When do I retire that hobbo? Should I retire him now since it would bring my TR below 150, giving me +1 in the next winnings roll? |
He could be useful as a LoS damage sponge who has no apothecary privileges.
Either retire him now, or after his next game-missing injury, or if it helps with handicaps against your next opponent's TR.
| Oblitzamanger wrote: | | When do I play my minotaur? On offense or defense only, or all the time? Who would I sit out for the mino if I play him? |
Minos are inherently offensive, but they make a decent safety which could free your BCs to put more pressure on deep ball carriers.
I would not put him on the LoS unless you can field twice as many players as your opponent.
Regarding spinball's advice on overloading the LoS on D, you will eventually meet a team with more ST and Guard than you.
When that happens, the Mino on the LoS will die. |
Last edited by Plorg on %b %08, %2006 - %04:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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Oblitzamanger
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2006 - 04:28 |
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Amazing advice and funny while on it. Answered all my questions. I will retire the av6 hobbo now. When my mino goes, I will get a troll. But why is break tackle so vital? I want to get strip ball on the block one and break tackle on the sure hands one. Should I get BT on the block bull before strip ball or some other useful defensive skill? (more questions) |
_________________
paulhicks wrote: I AM THE KING OF THE MONKEY PEOPLE AND I MUST SLAY THIS PRETENDER TO MY CROWN
That means you. |
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Oblitzamanger
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2006 - 04:31 |
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Oh and good advice too, plorg. the first was aimed at purplechest. Could you be more specific with the positioning of the mino? And why is he the primary blitzer? What makes him like that? |
_________________
paulhicks wrote: I AM THE KING OF THE MONKEY PEOPLE AND I MUST SLAY THIS PRETENDER TO MY CROWN
That means you. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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| spinball wrote: | | On D I find it effective to line up 3 chaos dwarfs on each side of the minotaur on the line of scrimage. After that I put 1 hobbo behind each of the end cds (when you get stand firm and guard this becomes frusterating for opponent. And put the 2 Bull Centaurs about 6-8 squares back (depending on how fast the other team is) so they can reach the LOS on a blitz and on turn one. |
I'm afraid i would strongly urge you NOT to follow this advice. It is usefull as a tactic below tr 150 (or occasionally agasinst norse etc at higher TR, or if you have a large numbers advantage). Where the mino is scary and the CDB awesome LOS fodder, but once the opponent is skilled up it gives 7 attempts to him to break your armour and remove a cdb or the BG. also allows a blitz in behind to hit a hobgob, which is 8 hits first turn to the opponent. Suicide. AV9 is good but isnt unbreakable, especially when opponent has some claws or MB to throw at you. Against orcs especially or developed chaos, khmeri, rotters, dwarves to name only the obvious, this def WILL mean deafeat more often than not.
You only have to put 3 on the line to be hit. Therefore the best number to let the opponent hit IS 3. |
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spinball
Joined: Jul 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2006 - 04:43 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: | | spinball wrote: | | On D I find it effective to line up 3 chaos dwarfs on each side of the minotaur on the line of scrimage. After that I put 1 hobbo behind each of the end cds (when you get stand firm and guard this becomes frusterating for opponent. And put the 2 Bull Centaurs about 6-8 squares back (depending on how fast the other team is) so they can reach the LOS on a blitz and on turn one. |
I'm afraid i would strongly urge you NOT to follow this advice. It is usefull as a tactic below tr 150 (or occasionally agasinst norse etc at higher TR, or if you have a large numbers advantage). Where the mino is scary and the CDB awesome LOS fodder, but once the opponent is skilled up it gives 7 attempts to him to break your armour and remove a cdb or the BG. also allows a blitz in behind to hit a hobgob, which is 8 hits first turn to the opponent. Suicide. AV9 is good but isnt unbreakable, especially when opponent has some claws or MB to throw at you. Against orcs especially or developed chaos, khmeri, rotters, dwarves to name only the obvious, this def WILL mean deafeat more often than not.
You only have to put 3 on the line to be hit. Therefore the best number to let the opponent hit IS 3. |
Obviously if your opponent has lots of Claws/RSC staying away from the line is a good idea, but being his team is young this won't come up for some time. But well said |
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Oblitzamanger
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2006 - 04:44 |
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I know. I wouln't have put more than three on the Los on defense anyhow. No matter what race you are playing, it is a bad idea as purplechest described. Blood Bowl coaching 101. (no offense spinball) |
_________________
paulhicks wrote: I AM THE KING OF THE MONKEY PEOPLE AND I MUST SLAY THIS PRETENDER TO MY CROWN
That means you. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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Break Tackle is amazing. Now i can tie up your Bulls easily (by standing any idiot next to them) and you have to hit me. this is bad as i get hit, but good as you best player is hitting the stuffed dummy i fed him. If you want to get away its a 50% roll to dodge, even with a reroll that rises to sad 75%. So your best player, uber blitzer and scoring machine is useless or burning rerolls. With Break tackle you dodge out on a 5/6 roll. WOOOO. A go anywhere anytime Bull. 1/36 fail with reroll!!! Party time. bull where you need it whenever you need it.
Break Tackle is amazing. You will never regret it on a bull. get it on the block bull next. The sure hands I'd take the risk and go BT then block. but then you will have to turn down anything other than +str or +ag at 30spp as the bull WILL need block then.
If a Bull gets a double: dodge and stand firm are the perfect takes. Though catch can be usefull (though not to you as you went for sure hands and bulls dont really need both)
Mino's are uber blitzers as the horns adds +1str if they move more than 1 space first, meanign advantage over other str5 BG's. Also the frenzy gives a second chance to maim if the first set if dice only give pushbacks. Combine the facts and Mino's can very often use a single assist to get 3 dice (and 3 more on a pushback if needed) against any str3 opponent. Also Mino's are really really properly scary.
But Bull blitzes are better long term on CD teams IMHO.
One final thought: 'Wont Mb scare elves away' - Yes. But you are chaos dwarves, elves will already be scared away. If not then they are proabably going to beat you. + other then guard and Mb CDB have really bad skills available (i usually give the first to three skills kick, and then dont have to rely on a hobgob for this usefull skill) so they will all have Mb pretty soon. In genral PRAY for a double, and get some SF cdb. they rock in a major way. |
Last edited by PurpleChest on %b %08, %2006 - %04:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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Oblitzamanger
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2006 - 04:52 |
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Okay. You've convinced me to take Break Tackle on both bulls now. Thanks. Which do you recommend for my bulls if I get a double? Dodge or Stand Firm? And finally, should I invest in blitzing with my mino? If so, where should he be positioned? And when is the appropriate time to do so? And what skills should my hobbos take? (never ending question fountain) |
_________________
paulhicks wrote: I AM THE KING OF THE MONKEY PEOPLE AND I MUST SLAY THIS PRETENDER TO MY CROWN
That means you. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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Bulls SF/Dodge - personal choice, both are excellent. I tend to go SF as it isnt cancellable like dodge hence more usefull if the team reaches high TR.
Mino - Position wherever you wnt to hurt stuff. Best blitz early on offense so thge bulls can start using the blitz, best blitz into dense opponent cloud so likelyhood of targets on further turns is higher.
Hobgobs- its taste again here. 1-2 with sure hands. A DP if you like that sort of thing. Block of course. Dodge or guard on doubles. Maybe a kicker if you dont want to give a cdb that. |
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