BigMac
Joined: Dec 19, 2004
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 Posted:
May 11, 2006 - 13:37 |
 
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Hail Marry is the most important skill in the game.
Diving Catch is irrelevant and can be ignored. |
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Tallmaris
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
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| Posted:
May 11, 2006 - 15:05 |
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for defense purpose is killer against slow teams... free the ball, get it (with big hand if you can) and throw it anywhere and let them restart. If you are faster (skaven?) you can outrun your opponent in the race to the ball  |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
May 11, 2006 - 16:47 |
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| Tallmaris wrote: | | for defense purpose is killer against slow teams... free the ball, get it (with big hand if you can) and throw it anywhere and let them restart. If you are faster (skaven?) you can outrun your opponent in the race to the ball |
Am I the only one that fears a fumbbl on those plays? That's for me a desperate move. |
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keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
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| Posted:
May 11, 2006 - 16:52 |
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I think Hail mary is like throw team mate, in the regards its a novelty throw. Its awfully fun to try, but the chances are not so good to complete. Then again my skinks handle the ball worse than my Sauruses, so I find it viable option. Ill drop it on a quick pass. Diving catch is a great skill for skinks. |
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Tallmaris
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
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May 11, 2006 - 17:27 |
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Well, sk8bcn, it's the type of play you do once in a lifetime... and anyway Hail Mary Pass is surely not the first skill I'd give a thrower... but maybe on a reserve thrower can be good... and diving catch on 1 of the four gutters can be nice as well as 4th-5th skill
(Thinking too much about skavens, really...  ) |
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Math and alcohol don't mix well... please don't drink and derive |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
May 11, 2006 - 17:37 |
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It's great on Human teams, IMHO. They are faster than many of their opponents, should always have two throwers and, barring doubles, run out of useful skills to give pretty quickly. Accurate, Block, Dump-Off, and Kick on one. If they develop, give it to them, it can't hurt (plus, catchers start out well-skilled as well, so Diving Catch is definitely a possibility) |
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slanter
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
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| Posted:
May 11, 2006 - 17:46 |
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But seriously, the skaven comment sounds rather good.
A skaven thrower with big hand and HM can pick up the scattered ball anywhere on +2 and toss it away for free =) |
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tattie5
Joined: Dec 08, 2005
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| Posted:
May 11, 2006 - 18:08 |
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I have used hail mary succesfully to win the game. Threw ball full length of pitch bounced and landed on my catcher who caught it dodged twice to go and score. I love HMP. it has failed a good few times but fun to split the game up a bit. |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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May 11, 2006 - 19:05 |
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I've never taken HMP or diving catch....but always wanted to. I think it'll wind up on either F Squad or MIst Guardians one of these days. It's just there are so many other more important skills I never get around to it.
both skills allow you to do something that cannot be done without it and thus broadens your tactical options. HMP allows you to toss the ball farther than the range template, and diving catch allows you a free one square move in any direction without need to dodge. And together they have almost a 50% of being a successful targeted pass!
Greatest potential I see here is the ability to get the ball past the mass of brutes that generally occupy the center of the board (HMP cannot be intercepted). HMP makes owning the middle ground almost useless. Your opponent will have to scatter in both directions which can throw off his game if he's someone that likes to methodically play every game the same. And if he scatters, the guard skill (which so many love) also becomes less effective. |
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destroyer_dabes
Joined: Jan 27, 2006
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| Posted:
May 11, 2006 - 19:10 |
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on gobbos HM can win games easy. You can camp for a few turns deep in your own zone with one diving catcher floating around deep. When the opposition finally gets around to going after your passer, dump and run after it. A catch/diving catch receiver will catch the ball like 30% of the time, and when they don't catch it your supporting gobbos can make a play for it.
look at it this way; a goblin with two doubles rolls gaining pass and accurate will make a long bomb (not even a long bomb) accurately on a 5+ rerolled, fumbling on a 1 or 2 and able to be intercepted. A goblin with one double gaining HM and a reciever with diving catch will make a pass on target about half of the time. Two doubles making a relatively short, unreliable passer or one double and one normal skill roll to make an infinite range unreliable passer. take your pick |
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vanGorn
Joined: Feb 24, 2004
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| Posted:
May 11, 2006 - 19:45 |
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It could be an option to hmp the ball back into your own half on a blitz.
Though the occasions may be rare where the player to reach the ball is the hmp player.  |
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Oblitzamanger
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
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May 11, 2006 - 22:22 |
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I wanted to start a thread about HMP yesterday but had to get off the computer before I had searched the Forum properly. Therefore, since this thread is in existance, I will use this one.
The direction I wanted to take this thread in was how to properly use and defend against HMP. This thread has also givin me the idea to ask which races are better suited for it. Here's my two cents:
Against a slower team, drop your thrower back and blitz the hell out of his side. The more players you have in his half, the better chance you'll come out with the ball. If your thrower is fast, you can run up and pass it normally, but if your thrower is slower, then use HMP. Keep one guy with the thrower in case of trouble. HMP can be fumbled.
The defender then has many choices:
a) cream your catchers and any other player capable of scoring.
b) smash the line of scrimage down then go after the thrower.
c) skip the line of scrimage and go after the thrower.
You should have three guys on the line anyway, so assume they're there. If your opponent chooses a, then you can cage up the thrower and walk downfield as they are too busy messing up your throwers.
If he chooses b, you should have enough time to get someone in position and pass before he catches your thrower after whailing on your Los boys. But keep one guy with your thrower!!!
If he chooses c, he's in for trouble as you can simply manuvre around him and pass the ball over his head.
If I were defending against it myself, I would go with choice a, assuming I wasn't under pressure to score. Without recievers to throw to, the HMP is useless. This means fouling the catchers, even if you only get a stun result. This wasy, he has to wait another turn to pass, which means the guys on the Los have another turn to break through and go after the thrower. Just be careful that your chasers going after the thrower don't leave a huge gap that can't be defended.
If he waits too long, it improves the chances of him making a desperate play (although HMP is desperate as is). What I mean is that if his recievrs are stunned and he has to score, he may end up long-bombing the ball into a cage or something rather than HMP. (This theory is off. Flame it up!)
When defending against it, remember <b>any</b> player can recieve a HMP, not just the catchers.
I think stunty races are very suited for HMP as they can get Diving catch relatively fast and it would only take one doubles to get HMP. Lizardmen though are an exception as their high movement eliminates the need to cover that ground with a HMP rather than a hand-off play. Other than that, HMP is better for slower bashier races, especially when they only play other slower bashier races. It adds the element of surprise to what are often typical games. Khemri teams are good as are Undead teams. Dwarves could pull it off, but it would be difficult. No other team really needs HMP. Orcs and Chaos are fast and strong enough and Chaos Dwarves couldn't pull it off very well. Faster baller teams such as Skaven and Elves don't need it as their longer passes tend to be more reliable anyway, although when your team is short players, it might really help to sit back and then pass out of nowhere, and that goes for any team.
So guys. That is my take on it. I would like for you to help assess how to correctly use and defend against the HMP as well as give advice on which teams it could really work for. Thanks, and thanks to Kyvberi for starting this thread. |
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Dendiir
Joined: Jan 06, 2005
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| Posted:
May 12, 2006 - 16:07 |
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Youve not mentioned HMP for defensive play. I love to take it on one thrower of my teams just to get a safeback. If ure defendig, turn 7 or 8 of yours, the player is deep in your half and left nearly the whole of his field empty, its quite suitable if u knock the ball free and just send it deep in the oposing half. U can get way deeper than with a normal pass at a less risk to fumbbl the ball. Also its nice if its your drive, your hard in defense (opponent outnumbered you and he can eventually make a touchdown because of that points) so you can pass the ball whereever hes not able to get it back in your TZ and score a Touchdown.
I think HMP is sometime really important to eitherway score or prevent the opponent from scoring by just sending the ball deep.
Greetz |
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coffindodger
Joined: Jul 01, 2005
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| Posted:
May 12, 2006 - 17:26 |
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If i ever start a Chaos team, a Big Hand, HMP player is certainly going to feature (using PBBL that's only 1 double)...
How about HMP, Sure Hands on an Elf (NoS) catcher? run into TZ, scoop up ball zoom off into some more TZ partway down the pitch and HMP to another catcher -->score...
Too late in the working day (lol) to work out the odds but that elf play has to be a good bet.
BFN
Paul |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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| Posted:
May 12, 2006 - 17:33 |
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EDIT: Never mind, I am stupid. |
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