| Poll |
| What do you think of Coach Ratings |
| Just a number of useless meaning ??? |
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8% |
[ 7 ] |
| Just an Ego Issue for some Coaches ??? |
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62% |
[ 49 ] |
| Just causes more Cherrypicking ??? |
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29% |
[ 23 ] |
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| Total Votes : 79 |
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spelledaren
Joined: Mar 06, 2004
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 Posted:
May 27, 2006 - 14:17 |
 
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I would have liked to comment, but the poll is so stupid it ruins the entire thread. |
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Peter_Thorpe
Joined: Oct 08, 2005
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| Posted:
May 27, 2006 - 14:21 |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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| Posted:
May 27, 2006 - 14:39 |
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Weird reasoning with only tournaments counting for CR. But I guess it depends if he meant RRR/smacks or the big ranked tournaments. The first ones takes skills (and of course always a bit of luck in bb) to win whereas the big ones (that gives most CR) is mostly about who has built the best team via cherrypicking before the tourney started (metagaming at it's finest). |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 27, 2006 - 14:45 |
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| Tinkywinky wrote: | | Weird reasoning with only tournaments counting for CR. But I guess it depends if he meant RRR/smacks or the big ranked tournaments. The first ones takes skills (and of course always a bit of luck in bb) to win whereas the big ones (that gives most CR) is mostly about who has built the best team via cherrypicking before the tourney started (metagaming at it's finest). |
yeah I meant the RRR, perhaps instead of coach ranking it woulf be tournie ranking, that way, then the RRR can be seeded by tourney ranking which would serve some purpose in that respect, Id like it as you cant dodge your opponents in a straight KO! 
by all means keep CR, just dont use it for fumbbl tournaments, have the tourney rating for the tournies with the K values and all
im not being coherent, i know what i mean, but dyslexia gets in the way  |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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TinkyWinky i couldnt agree more.
If Cr becomes Official Tourneys only it means the meta game becomes 'build the best team for the R tourneys'.
on the issue of win percentage vs CR, we are talking apples and oranges. Cr is a dynamic statistic and Win percentage a cumulative one.
Cumulative statistics will only motivate those with a very long term view. (having played 1000+ games here now my % will change only at glacial speeds) but CR provides the instant targets most people need for motivation ( you can lose/gain CR quickly no matter your current position or track history)
So if you drop CR you remove the easiest to percive short term goal mechanism, which will kill a lot of interest in the site.
As a side effect you massively increase the likelyhood and reward for multiple accounts. Win % will always remember the early days when you were terrible, a new account means you can start at the skill level you percieve yourself to be at now. I reckon i could bump my win % 5-10% by starting a new account. CR however is very forgiving of past mistakes, a 140 coach can be in the 160's within a handful of games, meaning you never should feel demotivated that yuo are faced with insurmountable obstacles to a noticable improvement. |
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MightyQuinn
Joined: Jan 13, 2004
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| Posted:
May 27, 2006 - 15:00 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: |
I also agree with avatar, polls are useless in the hands of people with obvious agendas/no experience in poll design.
Is this poll:
( ) Designed to reassure MightyQ that he is a better player than his CR shows.
( ) Solely here to increase his post count
( ) Just a load of old nonsense where all the options are the same |
To answer these, no I dont think I am a better coach, I guess I was totally surprized at the difference of coach rating being so high and win percentage being so low... And with this post to find out reasons why....
There is no more post count !!!
I did this poll fast which was a mistake because most questions I wanted to offer had a more of a yes or no answer...
But reading some of the replies and going back and rereading some peoples match records I know see reasons why the CR is high and win% is low... |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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Indeed. Appologies for my tone. large arguement at home that i allowed to affect my online mood. |
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MightyQuinn
Joined: Jan 13, 2004
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| Posted:
May 27, 2006 - 15:06 |
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| Mossbeard wrote: |
My cr rose fairly quickly when i beat a few high cr coaches, but my win percentage only rises very slowly. |
This is one thing I missed and shows why CR is higher when Win% can be low... |
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MightyQuinn
Joined: Jan 13, 2004
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| Posted:
May 27, 2006 - 15:09 |
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| Alibaba wrote: | | You didnt say is your % so high cos you only play down. Then your cr is low and % is high.. Just a tought.. Too lazy to check if that is really the case. I think CR brings lot of bad, but it tells something about the coach too. |
Me personally never play handicap games unless they are in tournaments and always try to play equal tr/str games...
I only recently played a handicap game, giving 1, because I wanted to play with that team because I wanted some cash to buy a player... |
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FischerKing
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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| Posted:
May 27, 2006 - 16:35 |
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I pretty much agree with everything Purplechest wrote, and im not voting in the poll either because the options are all pretty much the same, and I dont agree with it.
If you make CR only count for tourneys you would get a very inaccurate ranking to most coaches, because there is a lot of luck and metagaming involved in tournaments.
Tournaments, as it is now, makes the CR system a bit inaccurate, because if you have the luck needed to go far in them, it buffs your CR to an amazing degree. So, in the top 10 you will find coaches who is participating in a tournament, wonn a couple of smacks or something like that. They whant to make the tournaments attractive so they put in this huge cr buff in the formula, but I think thats a bad idea if we whant a more accurate CR system (give a little buff from the semis and forward in big tourneys perhaps, and thats it)
Low winn % and a high rating does not contradict one another. When you start out, you might loose alot because your learning the game, and when you get better and beat better teams/coaches, your CR will go up quickly, while your winn % would only go up slowly. If you just wonn a smack, a qualifier or things like that, your CR would be higher than it should be.
If your buffing your CR by starting up strong starter teams, you can easily play stronger teams, loose some and still get to a high CR.
Some teams are just better at playing up in general than others, like my dwarf team whos my biggest CR buffer right now. Its rated around 230 and only gets games vs stronger basher teams. Im more certain of winning when my dwarfs play vs a + 20 ts orc/chaos team, than my woodies are when they play vs most -20 ts teams.
CR system has it flaws, thats for sure, but if it wasnt for tourneys it would be an ok rough guide to coaching skills, as long as you dont expect it to be the ultimate truth: "my cr is 2 points better than yours so Im a better coach" no way. With a CR system, you can cherrypick on coaches if you whant to, but you can also awoid cherrypicking coaches. Many high rating coaches whont play coaches below 140. They can awoid that and find more fair games because there is a CR system. |
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MightyQuinn
Joined: Jan 13, 2004
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| Posted:
May 27, 2006 - 23:32 |
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| FischerKing wrote: | | They whant to make the tournaments attractive so they put in this huge cr buff in the formula, but I think thats a bad idea if we whant a more accurate CR system (give a little buff from the semis and forward in big tourneys perhaps, and thats it) |
This I was unaware of as I thought coach rating the same for everyone... |
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MightyQuinn
Joined: Jan 13, 2004
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| Posted:
May 27, 2006 - 23:39 |
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I will also admit and apologize for such sucky choices for the poll... I was a bit mifted I guess when I started this as certain higher rated coaches were offering me games when I had higher tr/str teams then they wanted to play which would have been more equal... I still dont have a clear understanding of cherrypicking... |
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FischerKing
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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| Posted:
May 28, 2006 - 01:45 |
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Heh, you could have put in at least one possitive option, but give it a rest. Now we are having this debate and the poll is kindoff a fluff. Anyway, there are alot of cherrypicking, and new players just have to learn how to find fair games themselves. In a league where you pick opponents there will allways be a factor of cherrypicking, rating or no rating. |
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Idolen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 28, 2006 - 02:23 |
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Question: CR isn't affected by diffrence in TR is it? I thought it only calculated TS diffrence in the formula.
/me is to tired to find out for myself  |
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stormknight
Joined: Sep 21, 2004
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| Posted:
May 28, 2006 - 02:33 |
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Don't take CR seriusly... Look at my CR and my win% and you get the picture.  |
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