daylightdancer
Joined: May 06, 2006
|
 Posted:
Jul 10, 2006 - 23:42 |
 
|
Okay, so I'm rapidly discovering I'm not very good at this game. So can someone look at these two teams:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&team_id=270680
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=257439
and tell me where their development is going wrong. I know One Tribe has far too many SPPs on a few players, but it seems to be too late to do anything about it. The other players don't get much chance to score (and the Storm Vermin keep dying).
As for in-game tactics, there is one very obvious mistake I keep making (pushing the thrower with ball too far forwards on the offense). That I can fix. But what do I do when a player or two down (which happens after the first turn normally)? And how about Skaven defence? How does that work? |
|
|
Fama
Joined: Feb 09, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 00:02 |
|
I'm not a skaven expert, but I can give you a few pointers about team management:
1.) Repeat after me - nigglers are baaaad. Bad. Get it? Bad. One niggler in a team can do if they either go on the los, OR are very good (+ST or something). Just remember, that often they won't even show up.
2.) Always go block first. It's boring, but it works. On linemen you can go kick or DP first, but on positionals (ok, throwers excluded. I mean grunners with this.) get block first. Block makes them survive. Block, side step, diving tackle, maybe shadowing (but not both DT and shadowing). Don't take catch unless if you REALLY know what you're doing.
3.) Don't develope oneturners. They're lame. But not only that, they'll suck all your spp's and make the team unbalanced. By the time you know what you're doing, maybe playing in a tournament, you can ignore this.
4.) Don't take DP unless you're going to use it. I didn't check how long your DP has had the skill, but 3 fouls - 12 games. Not worth it in that case. It will decrease the amount of games you get, and your opponents might be potential foulers -> team hurt.
5.) All in all, you're doing fine. Don't be afraid to ask for skillchoices on irc, they're usually reasonably answered (ignore kick and DP to doubles on a grunner, for example).
And the most important thing: Have fun. |
_________________
I love deadlines. I like the wooshing sound they make when they fly by. -Douglas Adams
 Side step this! |
|
Frankenstein
Joined: Jan 26, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 00:08 |
|
Sprint wasn't a particularly good choice.
Actually, I wouldn't recommend to take Sprint on any player at all, the exception being stunties. |
|
|
torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 00:10 |
|
Except for the one turners, I think your teams are fine. You could consider sacking that block lino in "One Tribe - One Future! JP", since he'll inflate TR. Keep that other niggler for now, so you can put him on the LOS but don't get him SPP. Ideally, your team should be free of nigglers but that is a pipe dream in my experience - unless you want to go elfballish which is lame. Skaven and too many spp on select players? Yes, that's what skaven seems to be about. Linos die by the bunch, I only keep those that roll something interesting skillwise. Besides, the only important players are the GRs anyway, the rest is a bonus. That said, bashy SVs and good throwers are great boons should you keep them alive. Linos are only worth keeping and developing if they have: kick, dp, claw, foul appearance, or guard. Hence the bunch of SPP on a few select players.
For some reason, my skaven keep winning yet can't do defense at all. I've no clue why - I think it is probably my cherrypicking skills. Do know how to properly one-turn-score, it will save your behind a lot and skaven are one of the best teams to pull it off with. |
_________________
The plural of anecdote isn't data. |
|
Rijssiej
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 00:13 |
|
lose the assistant coaches, they are not worth the TR. |
|
|
daylightdancer
Joined: May 06, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 10:38 |
|
Thanks for the pointers. My early One Tribe choices were influenced by my board game experiences (one turners all the way) - hence the completely useless Sprint. Stained Paw is my attempt to learn from my mistakes - although their record is pretty dire to date.
Any tips on using Rat Ogres? I've had one, his first game he was KO'd first turn for the game, second and third games were spent on his back failing Wild Animal rolls and then he died in the fourth.
Thanks again. |
|
|
Fama
Joined: Feb 09, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 10:42 |
|
Rat ogre is a luxury for skaven, get him after you have 14 healthy players or so (and at least 4-5 rerolls). That said, he isn't particularly useful. Sure he has ST 5 and can block people, but WA and av 8 sucks. Do not blitz with him, since if WA fails you'll lose the blitz. |
_________________
I love deadlines. I like the wooshing sound they make when they fly by. -Douglas Adams
Side step this! |
|
Tallmaris
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 10:49 |
|
Rat ogre is a sort of damage taker in the LoS, but with AV8 he won't last long... I agree with Fama, he is a bit useless in a well developed skaven team. He can be good with a double, so you can get TENTACLES...  |
_________________
There can be only ones! (HighNuffler)
Math and alcohol don't mix well... please don't drink and derive |
|
Tophat
Joined: Jun 01, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 11:30 |
|
everyone always bad mouths one turners but really you should keep one , people bad mouth them as they are cheesy , develop 1-2 gutter runners to be one turners and the other gutter runners to be blodgey sidestepy annoying little gits . Horns/dauntless is equally cheesy if you roll well on your GRs .
Ive played skaven whos entire defense strategy is to let the opponent score(attempt a gutter blitz ) , then score right back if the gutter blitz fails .
With your one turners only ever 1 turn if you have too though as its risky and far safer to not do so .
Big hand can be useful on a thrower |
_________________
Glory Daze-Dying for Glory since 30th July 2006- Back Now |
|
Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 11:45 |
|
| Tophat wrote: | | Ive played skaven whos entire defense strategy is to let the opponent score(attempt a gutter blitz ) , then score right back if the gutter blitz fails. |
I've played so many teams whose entire defensive strategy was to blitz your ballcarrier, and if it failed, let you score! And when you scored they'd try and score a touch-down of their own to level it out! How lame is that?
I wonder how it's "letting you score" if the blitz fails...
Having a one-turner is useful, that's for sure, can win or draw you a game - however you can one-turn via push-backs in a pinch, so it's not vital. I've never had a one-turner but scored plenty of one-turn TDs. If you do develop a one-turner, as stated, only ever score with him when in dire need, or you'll end up with a one-trick-pony team.
What is vital is having a way to break your opponent's drive and score against him. Skaven playing a hitter team often need to secure a 3 - 0 advantage by the end of the first half or face up to trying to defend a one goal lead with six players...
I'd love Big Hand on a thrower, but have never actually rolled a double on a skaven tosser. Maybe this has something to do with the fact that I barely pass - I hate those 3+ roll things...
Rat Ogre, more like Suck Ogre. Expensive, only good for taking punches, no Regen, AV 8... Okay so they're ST 5, but can only move on a 4+ if they're out of contact unless you're wiling to sacrifice your blitz for it.. And they can't use RR... And getting Block is annoying.
Gutter Runners are the heart and soul of a team - it's up to the rest of the team to open up the holes that the gutters go through to do their stuff (which usually includes blitzing that deep ball-carrier - a GR with Dauntless does well here). Storm Vermin should do it if they can, but are easier to mark and less mobile and more likely to fail a dodge (and eat a TRR doing it).
SVs make great offensive support (with Guard) and can do some damage when used as sweepers (Tackle, MB). With Doubles, Horns on a SV is useful to blitz holes in the opponent defensive line-up, leaving the assist you'd normally set free to move somewhere more useful. Also just generally useful when going for a ball-carrier. Claw is over-rated.
Linerats are, um, linerats. They come and go and die a lot needing replacements every other match. Don't expect to have many developed ones, and when you do have many developed ones you'll be crying every time you have to put them on the LoS. Generally two or three well-developed linos are all you expect or need.
This may change with Skaven teams over TR 200... But with a Skaven team nearing 40 matches myself, only three of those have been over TR 200. Player turn-over rate is high. |
_________________
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day; set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Last edited by Mezir on %b %11, %2006 - %11:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
|
odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 11:49 |
|
One turners cheesy? Actually they're quite usefull, don't 1turn if you don't have to, but on turn 8 and 16, after being stalled on, you can still win/tie the game. But if you 1turn on t1 on offence, you'll just be beaten up for the next 8 turns 
For example I've got a 1turner, who has been an 1turner for 23 games, but has only made 8 1turn goals. He never tried to do them, 'cept on turns 8 and 16...
The linos are just fodder, they die...
IMHO it's a good idea to have 2 defensive GRs (block, side step, shadowing/diving tackle...), who will actually win you games, but don't get too attached to them. The other 2 GRs you can develop for offence (almost forgot to mention, these guys die too)...
The SV can make great blitzers, if you're not planning on dodging games, get claw on doubles, rsc on the 2nd doubles. Those SVs will die you too
Throwers? I don't always even have them, since you can leave a defensive gutter in the back to get the ball.
And remember, no matter what you do, the rats die frequently, it's all part of the fun  |
|
|
NekaFuksa
Joined: Feb 12, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 12:07 |
|
Well the only thing that I dont agee with the others is the Rat Ogre.He is realy great.When he gets the multiple block he can be VERY VERY usefyl.A lot of people dont use the multiple block skill at all, but if used properly he can become a real kiling mashine and in combination with fast runers he is a real pain in the ass for your oponents ;D |
|
|
Furious_George
Joined: Aug 13, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 12:14 |
|
the RO is useful for blitzing a hole, thats about it imho. Thing is, he doesnt gel well with the rest of the team, and i wouldnt reccomend anyone to start with one, you learn bad habits, and perhaps delude yourself into thinking you can stand and trade with other teams. You cant. |
_________________
Dead Men dont tell tales... But they sure play a mean game of Bloodbowl.
"Hugh Mann eh? Now theres a name I can trust!"
Me Loves Futurama |
|
Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 12:26 |
|
Using a Rat Ogre to blitz your holes is asking for trouble. Double Skull/Pow (or triple, it's more likely than a double skull and you can't re-roll it) leaves you sitting there looking slightly sheepish while your opponent waltzes into your half and sacks your thrower. |
_________________
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day; set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. |
|
Wrongfooting
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 12:46 |
|
| Mezir wrote: | | Rat Ogre, more like Suck Ogre. Expensive, only good for taking punches, no Regen, AV 8... Okay so they're ST 5, but can only move on a 4+ if they're out of contact unless you're wiling to sacrifice your blitz for it.. And they can't use RR... And getting Block is annoying. |
I don't use 'em. Bloodbowl is unpredictable enough as it is - the last thing you need to add into the mix is Wild Animal and no reroll ability.
What I find interesting is that Jervis Johnson and Tom Anders disagree - in my mind putting up a Rat Ogre's cost to 160k (current = 130k) means they think LRB4 Rat Ogres are overpowered...all the other Big Guys only went up 10k. |
|
|
|
|
| |
SWL Season 100!
Search
