Gus
Joined: Sep 16, 2005
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 Posted:
Jul 25, 2006 - 22:46 |
 
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I might be blind but I can´t seem to find the LRB 5.0 anywhere. Does anyone have any clue where I can find it? Might be fun to read! |
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Thomcat
Joined: Jul 20, 2004
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Jul 25, 2006 - 22:56 |
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Fama
Joined: Feb 09, 2005
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Jul 25, 2006 - 22:59 |
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Actually, the "PBBL Rulebook 1.12 (Précised)" is even named LRB_5.pdf - since LRB 5 is official in less than week (31th day AFAIK), that's probably the final version. Don't know for sure tho. |
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Gus
Joined: Sep 16, 2005
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Jul 25, 2006 - 23:00 |
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I can see again. Miracles do happend!
Thx I have some intresting reading ahead! |
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GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 26, 2006 - 06:31 |
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| Fama wrote: | | Actually, the "PBBL Rulebook 1.12 (Précised)" is even named LRB_5.pdf - since LRB 5 is official in less than week (31th day AFAIK), that's probably the final version. Don't know for sure tho. |
The final version posted by the end of this month will have some slight changes from the 1.12 version up on the website currently.
Galak |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 26, 2006 - 11:30 |
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GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 26, 2006 - 15:00 |
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Don't shoot the messenger on this one.
Andy Hall from GW told me that the LRB 5.0 has been submitted to the web guys to be posted to the site and they told him it should be posted by August 4th. Appartantly they have a ton of Warhammer stuff to get posted and that is the day they are currently telling submitters new material will be posted by.
I'll keep you posted if I get any more updated news.
Galak |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 27, 2006 - 00:11 |
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| GalakStarscraper wrote: | | Don't shoot the messenger on this one. |
I didn't even see your post as you snuck it in there whilst I typed.
As always, you're a font of knowledge, Tom. |
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Uber
Joined: Mar 22, 2004
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Jul 27, 2006 - 01:00 |
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Galak, you shouldn't worry about getting shot around here.
You should worry about being abducted, tortured, tortured again, tortured more, killed and then fed to pigs...  |
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rick_s_chris
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
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Jul 27, 2006 - 01:05 |
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| Uber wrote: | Galak, you shouldn't worry about getting shot around here.
You should worry about being abducted, tortured, tortured again, tortured more, killed and then fed to pigs... |
Or getting served pie... |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 27, 2006 - 01:10 |
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| Uber wrote: | Galak, you shouldn't worry about getting shot around here.
You should worry about being abducted, tortured, tortured again, tortured more, killed and then fed to pigs... |
Yea, hangings too good for 'em!  |
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GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 27, 2006 - 05:17 |
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| Uber wrote: | Galak, you shouldn't worry about getting shot around here.
You should worry about being abducted, tortured, tortured again, tortured more, killed and then fed to pigs... |
It is amazing to me that rationale folks can write things like that about a fellow human being over a game ... ah well ... 
I know I'm not ever going to be on your Christmas Card list (or Britnoth's or PurpleChest's or Force's)
However ... the bottom line is (for me) ... some day you should take the time to see how badly the game would have sucked with LRB 5.0 if I wouldn't have been involved. I was involved simply because the result that would have happened otherwise was really scary. If you ever get time ... look at the early versions of JJ's ideas for LRB 5.0 ... its not a game that I'd want to play if it had become official.
Ah well .... I was on your side of the fence Uber for 4th edition ... so I remember thinking that the supporters of that edition were idiots ... so I know your thoughts. I'm sorry that LRB 5.0 has a lot more support than 4th edition ever did and that there are zero odds at this point of JJ publishing the "sorry guys ... ignore this new edition" article for LRB 5.0 as he did for 4th edition.
Me ... I'm moving on ... happily ... no more rulebook editor if I can avoid it. I've got two BB leagues to work on, a computer version of BB to update, 3 BB tournaments to organize for this and next year, and 3 articles to write up for SG online Fanatic mag. For all those wishing torture for me ... I accept your ill thoughts ... understand that there was no way there would not be folks that didn't wish me ill thoughts ... and on we go.
Galak |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 27, 2006 - 06:27 |
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I for one did read one of the early attempts at the vault rules...
Youre right, they were utterly attrocious. However, taking a bad start and improving it enough to be accepted is IMO not a good thing... if the rules had been left that bad, then most people would have said 'god they are awful lets stick with lrb4' and after awhile got dumped. Making them from a bad start into an almost improvement, with a few long awaited additions that SHOULD have been made the last rules review anyway (but were probably not just to make vault more popular than if they had) such as a reduced DP, help for seriously beat up teams like journeymen etc, tips them over the edge to appear overall better than LRB4. But you could make something IMO much much better than LRB4 by just taking 3-4 good ideas from vault, fixing the overpowered races (instead of improving them that vault has) and then maybe adding skills like wrestle etc as experimental rules for testing. If skijunkie could just have implemented a few of the skills for testing we could have had a DivX on FUMBBL with 1000s of games played to test them.
My main gripes with lrb5:
1. Reduction of skills to reduce the effect of coach skill. No more IGMEOY is the prime example of this. A fluffy, tactical rule is replaced with one that requires no thought.
2. Introduction in numerous counterskilling skills. LRB4 has only a couple, LRB5 has aproaching a dozen. I do not play BB for a version of Yu-Gi-Oh!Bowl.
3. Huge improvements to some rosters that many already considered really strong. CD with mutations? Come on... appart from strengthening an incredibly strong team already, it goes completely against the fluff.
4. Mutations on normal rolls - for chaos + nurgle while skaven still need doubles. Skaven are the warpstone race... yet now are the really weak cousins. Ubering up PO again to what it was before is also a bneheaded move. Claw MB PO on 3 normal rolls = av9 killing machine.
5.Nerfing apo... it may not be as bad as it was when first changed, bit its still pretty weak compared to the mighty regen now. Nurgles are just weakened chaos with with 9 regen players + free fodder from kills. Ugly.
6. Removal of traits, nerfing of some skills to compensate. Traits were good. they werent overly complex and kept some players from having nasty combinations. How is all the wrestle/block/sidestep/grab/fend/juggernaut/stand firm/frenzy counterskill crap supposed to make it simpler then?
7. Removal of ageing. There goes the only method to keep the higher armoured teams having even near the same player turnover of the low av teams. Also, the change from spp adding to TR to each skill roll adding to TV means that a 200 spp player is the same value at 500 spp...
8. More star players. WTF? Stars were stupidly strong as it is, Often breaking the game at lower TR. Instead of removing the stupid ones, you add lots of other cheaper ones that are really strong. 8-10 TV difference for an induced chainsaw wielding player?
Good things:
1. Leader a passing skill, Strong Arm a strength skill.
2. More skills working with TTM (if i read it right).
3. Vastly improved diving catch.
4. Journeymen (this may be abusable as it is, not sure) and mng not counting towards rating/value etc.
5. The concept of inducements directly relating to TV difference, replacing the 11-25, 26-50, 51-75, 76-100, 101+ brackets. If only for the fact that unlike the LRB 4 handicaps, they help the underdog instead of restricting the better team of their full squad.
6. Less niggling injuries (although, with that niggling injury giving +1 to injury, keeping them around is almost as bad as it is now).
Please note, all of those I consider good ideas could easily have been added to LRB4.
Brit. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 27, 2006 - 10:47 |
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well, I must say:
-thx to galak for giving his time for the game.
-I don't know which LRB is better and I will say after having played LRB5.
-I d like to have the option to play both on the site to have the better chance to compare. |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 27, 2006 - 11:55 |
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hey Britnoth,
just a couple of thoughts.
As I said last night (i think) I also dont like CD's getting mutations on doubles, they are rather good players IMHO, and they got a boost without any sort of price hike, I would be happier if they did get a price hike, say 80k for blockers, meaning a net increase of 6TV to pay for gaining it. As far as fluff is concerned however, AFAIK, CD's were able to mutate in 2nd edition, and the BB world isnt the WFB world same goes for Slann in BB and WFB, treemen etc
Ageing was a good way of keeping player growth down, but for a lot of coaches it was probably one of the biggest gripes with the system too, it really isnt a fun rule, though i think, IMHO of course, that the change to claw especially benefits the elves and hurts the bashers, which will in effect slow the basher growth, and leave wood elves in an equal state. Ive noticed on my basher and agile teams there is a "similar" level of player turnover, then add in the worse apoth into the mix, which was to curb team growth again
Having played the new rotters, i really havent found them to be ridiculously overpowered, heck, if you want to look at the MBBL stats (a low number, granted) but the Nurgle are between 40% and 50%. They do have more expensive positional players, meaning you sacrifice rerolls, or you start with more rotters, which can easily cripple your development if you lose a few in the first games, sure you can use journeymen, but you still need to buy the players back if you want to develop them.
Part of the real bonus of Chaos is that any player on the roster (BG excluded) can carry the ball, this is really limited tio the pestigors, as you cant aim to develop a rotter ballcarrier, as they break and have no way of protecting them (bar using an Igor every game)! At higher TV they will do really well, but depending on the league setting, they may not be able to sustain this high level of play
star players, they are more expensive, they sure are still useful, but this will likely encourage the use of more dauntless by linemen, as its easy to get now, and as we said about wrestle, its a good anti star skill, granted saws are still a real pain, but they are there for a drive and thats it, they are hit and miss, and the kickback rule is fun too 
IGMEOY, at first i was a bit uneasy about the new fouling, IGMEOY was a fun little minigame that you could play with the opponent, but just asking, i cant remember, but was IGMEOY added to combat the effectiveness of fouling, or DP? As fouling isnt as good, its a bigger risk to foul essentially as its harder toget the player off, and then the chances of you going are increased. I like the mechanic of that, the ref may not notice you booting a player, but when he is writhing on the ground in "agony" he will take more notice, think materazzi and zidane!
counterskills, i like, wrestkle i like, it adds more to team development as now almost every first skillpick is block, you have to think more about it in LRB5 more, same goes for PO and Fend
I dunno, Im not sayimg Im right or your wrong, Im just explaining my view on it based on the LRB5 games Ive played so far! I hope Im not coming across as a fanboy, but i dislike a lot less of LRB5 than what I dislike about LRB4, handicaps, Claw/RSC, excessive DP, Ogres, ageing, Nurgle just to name a few! Thanks for taking your time to express your view on it britnoth! |
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