Lishi
Joined: Oct 11, 2005
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 Posted:
Oct 25, 2006 - 01:17 |
 
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Hi there...
After over 200 matches with playing amazons on fumbbl, I think I can write something about this topic. This are my tipps and it´s my style of playing with amazons... ...there are probably more and other tactics, that will work fine too. Feel free to add comments or other strategies...
1. Everything you don´t want to know about zons.
There are 3507 Amazon teams on fumbbl, making them less popular then Norse, Necromantics or Lizardmen. (They are on 13th place of the official 21 LRB-Teams). They are often considered to be "to good" or "broken" and as long as it´s for low-TR-teams in ranked where you can avoid dwarves, that´s true. Amazons got the best winning rate (48%) of all teams on fumbbl (2nd and 3rd are Chaos Dwarves and Undead with 46%). But if you take a look at the big tournaments or leagues, you won´t find much amazons dominating there.
Unlike some other teams, where Break Tackle-Standfirm-Bull Centaures, Oneturn-Gutter Runners or Claw-RSC-Chaoswarriors can become superstars easily and do half of the math for their team, most amazon-teams tend to have no superb-players and always blitz or always score with the same player. Therefor, Amazons are more flexible.
Amazons are considered to be a "medium" or "average" team. They aren´t bashy, they aren´t agile. Their big advantage is to have dodge on every player. Disadvantages are: they a fragile (AV7) and lack speed (MA6).
2. Starting Team:
For a long-time-build (if you want to play more then 20 matches in ranked, a league, a tournament...), I prefer this starting team:
-4 Blitzers
-2 Throwers
-no Catchers
-5 Linegirls
-9 Fan Factor
-4 Rerolls
(If you start in a league and your first opponents could be experienced orcs or dwarves, maybe start with FF8, 3 Rerolls and buy an apo instead)
3. Team Building:
Don´t score always with your 2 catchers. They aren´t really good in offense too, they do better in defense (see below).
Try to score with skillless linegirls and blitzers! Linegirls with 6SPP (and probably block as first skill) are much better then skillless ones, will save your rerolls and live longer. I usually try to get the first skill on new players (in a experienced team) in the first 3 matches.
Use the touchback to give them the ball or pass to your catcher first and try a handover to them, if you have a reroll left and you are in a save position.
4. Blitzers:
First skill should be guard, if you allready have enough guard on the team, take mighty blow instead. After mighty blow, tackle would be a good choice. On a double, I like take stand firm (maybe on a double 5 too, especially when you allready have a MA7 girl). Stand Firm together with blodge and guard rocks... ...you can try the silliest moves without having a turnover (but remember: if you dive through 4 orcs to get the ball sourounded by those 4 orcs, you probably won´t pick it up and cause a turnover (and if you pick it up, those 4 orcs will bash you away)). Frenzy maybe as a 2nd double, I never took Dauntless (I think, that is better for linegirls, but I never took it on them too).
5. Throwers:
Maybe the worst throwers after the Thro-Ras from a khemri team (of corse, at least amazons have throwers, unlike chaos or undead... ...in dwarf teams, the runners are often not used as throwers). They lack sure hands and that will probably cost you some rerolls in the beginning. That´s the reason, I like to have 2 throwers on the starting team: you can use the 2nd to move to the ball and secure it before the other thrower tries to pick it up if the ball is in the middle. If it is in the wide zones, you don´t have to go for it.
Take Sure Hands or Block as first skills (I like sure hands on the first, block on the other), take the other skill as 2nd skill on the player. I usually not try to throw more then a quick pass or a short pass. If throwers become more experienced, I like to make one a good thrower (after sure hands and block: accurate, strong arms if you roll a double, maybe safe throw) and one a good "linegirl/allrounder" (after block and sure hands: tackle, guard on a double, maybe strip ball...).
The reason for that: even with sure hands, you will fail to pick up a unsecured ball from time to time. If you play against skaven or elves, a blodger often will get to the ball immidiatly. You do want a tackler in the backfield, if this happens.
If you have a AG4 linegirl, she makes a pretty good thrower too. If you roll a ST+ early on a thrower and have a AG4-linegirl, you should switch them... ...use the thrower as a linegirl and the linegirl as a thrower.
On a double 5, take the MA+.
6. Catchers:
As I said, be carefull with catchers. Don´t let this 2 players be the only players that score in your team, because then they become SPP-suckers and the rest of your team is unexperienced.
They aren´t really good in offense (at least till they get AG+, ST+ or MA+). Blitzers or Linegirls are as fast as them. First skills should be block, then sidestep, then diving tackle. On a double, take guard on a double 5 take the MA+.
They become real good defenders, if they have sidestep, diving tackle, block and guard.
7. Linegirls:
Linegirls need block as soon as possible. If they don´t have it, they tend to get hurt or die pretty often. There is not much more, linegirls really need. They haven´t strenght access like orcs or beastman, or agility acess like elves. If they get a 2nd or 3rd normal skill, make it a good mixture. Take one tackle, one kick, one strip ball, one dirty player (if you like), then another tackle or whatever your team lacks at the moment.
On a double, take guard, on a 2nd double maybe side step. If you have enough guard allready (4 blitzers + 1 catcher + 1 linegirl with guard is enough), take diving tackle, that works pretty well, because many coaches forget it and don´t expect it on a linegirl. Have tried that once, it rocks! Mighty Blow maybe also would be a good choice.
8. Defense Tipps:
Amazons are rather slowly. Remember that, when you are at defense, especially when you play against teams with a MA7 or better players. Put one or two players in the back, so a ballcarrier can´t run away from you.
There are 2 main defense strategies...
CAREFULL: Usefull, if your opponent has more players then you and builds a cage or he runs out of time. You simply try to slow down your opponent and put your girls one blank square away from the cage, behind your girls another girl, so they can´t break through. Have sure, that you have a guard-player somewhere in the back (but not to much), that is free and can jump in whereever she is needed. Your last actions in a turn: dodge one square away from your opponent (at least try). Dodge away from tacklers too, if you have enough rerolls left.
COURAGEOUS: It´s a bit risky, but works well if you have enough guard players (and that´s why I like to take guard on nearly any double). The idea behind this is your opponent can´t block you, if he is lying around. So jump into your opponent, maybe foul someone, try to get them down, if you fail, at least push them away from your girls if they have tackle. If even that fails, maybe use a reroll to roll the block again!
ANOTHER TIPP: One player should always be free "behind enemy lines". If you get the ball, throw it to him and run away with the ball and score. Or he could "freeze" players (see below) or make a 1-dice-block become a 2-dice-block...
9. Offense Strategies:
OFFENSE 1: If it´s possible and it´s the start of the match, I like to build a cage behind the LoS in my first turn. (Most time, I succeed). Another 1-2 players (Rookie or Experienced Linegirls or catchers... ...if they are too experienced, your opponent will bring them down and foul them). Should run 6 or 7 squares in the half of the opponent and wait in scoring position. They will attract 1-2 opponent players and maybe the blitz, so your cage will be pretty save. Add one or two players to the left and right side of your cage (2 squares away from your cage), so your opponent can get behind the cage. This is the tactic for a slow 8-turn-touchdown, maybe usefull against non-bashy or medium teams like humans, skaven, elves.
OFFENSE 2: Build a cage too, but not in the middle behind the LoS. Choose one side (left or right wide zone), blitz some player of the opponent in the wide zone, build a cage about 4-5 squares deep in the opponent zone, not too deep to the side. That´s a good starting position for a 3-, 4- or 5-turn-touchdown. 1-2 players should be free in the back or wait on the other side, to make it more flexible. That offense is good against bashier teams, like orcs or chaos, because you probably can´t do a 8-turn-touchdown vs. them, because you will run out of players to build a save cage first. Score in 4 or 5 rounds, then choice the carefull defense to slow down your enemy.
OFFENSE 3: If you have to make it quick, you have to do a 2-turn-touchdown. (1-turn-touchdowns are very, very, very rare on amazon teams). Don´t try to bring down the enemy LoS, put as much players to one side as you can and try to break through that side. I like to throw the ball first, before I run in the opponents half, but that depends on the set up...
10. General Tipps:
-I like to have 6 rerolls (maybe 7 if you have a low FF). Amazon Rerolls will raise your TR just by 4 points (not by 7 points, like undead), so it´s okay to have many. And I use them for handovers and passes to skillless linegirls/blitzers, to dodge away from mb-tacklers, to roll a pow when I rolled two arrows...
-Remember, that you can dodge away, even if your opponent has tackle (33% chance most times). I try that maybe on the end of a turn, especially when I got enough rerolls left or my opponent has tackle and mighty blow or claws and would have 2 diceblocks against me. Or try a 1-dice-block against him. Try to make sure, that your opponent has no tackle guys near your girls for a block.
-"Freeze" big guys and guarders. Your linegirls are cheap and no big loss. I like to put them next to mummies, saurus or ogres, especially when those still lack block, tackle and/or Break Tackle. You also can put a "replaceable" linegirl next to a claw-rsc-tackle-chaoswarrior-monster, so he will block her and maybe be away from the action. Else he might blitz a catcher or thrower and gets closer to my ballcarrier.
-If you foul, your first target should be mb-tackle or claw-tackle players of your opponent (maybe a one-turner first).
-The only starplayer you can hire is Zara the slayer, but she sucks, at least there are much better starplayers for other teams (and it sucks if your opponent scores in first half, 2nd turn and the Ref sees Zaras Stakes!). I prefer a wizard, especially when your opponent has AG2 or AG1 players, a fireball can come in handy on a dwarves or saurus cage. I know, that Zara has a +3 to armor roll vs. khemri, Undead, Necro and Vampire, but vs. those AG1 mummies and AG2 zombies I still prefer a wizard most of the time. Zara only rocks against Vampires...
-I like to put skillless Blitzers or 6SPP-Blodge-Linegirls to the LoS on a kick off.
-Remember to add some tackle to your team! You should have your first tackle player at TR140...
11. RECOVERY:
You will have times, when you have just 7 or 9 players at the start of the match. If you play woodies or skaven, you maybe know this problem. If you normally play orcs or dwarves, this probably will be new to you. Since players are rather cheap, you will get back soon. But 7 amazons won´t do as well as 7 wood elves, so you should prepare to loose some of those matches...
12. Tipps vs. other races:
AMAZONS:
Can´t say much here. From my 200 matches with amazons there were just 1 match vs. amazons. Try to take their blitzers out early, especially those with tackle and MB. Try to hold away their guards, if they are away from the action, it should be much easier for you.
CHAOS:
You will find much matches vs. chaos. (In fact, I did most of my matches vs. them (24 matches)). At low TR, Chaos usually suck against any teams (no block, low RR), later it´s a fair match up. Be carefull with claw-tacklers, mb-tacklers and especially Claw-RSC-tacklers. If you can´t take out the last ones early, they will do about 5 Causalities to your team. Opponents tend to always blitz with them and then fast back with them to safety. At medium TR (about 170), Chaos still lack a lot of tackle and you can choose the infight and surround their cage. Later on, (about TR230), be more carefull, choose one side of the cage, where you have more players (and a lot of guard) then your opponents to open it and put on the other side some players one suare away from your opponent, so that they can´t get forward or break through. Remember the horns of the beastman... ...you may have a blodge-catcher, but if a beastman can reach you and has a reroll left, he has more than a 50% chance to get the ball.
CHAOS DWARVES:
Again, I just played 2 matches vs. them. Try to get out the hobgoblin-dirtyplayers they have. Remember, that you can dodge away from chaos dwarf-blockers, especially when they have mighty blow. Remember, that bull centaurs are faster then your team, make sure that they can´t break through...
DARK ELF:
Hard opponent for Amazons. Got no special tipps against them, because many coaches have different tactics with DEs, so they are hard to predict.
DWARVES:
Well, I have had just two matches against dwarves on fumbbl (and won 4-0, the other 2-2, more against them on the board game), so I still work on my tactics against them. I like to say: "It´s not that hard to win against dwarves... ...it´s hard to win the match after dwarves!". Use offense 2 or offense 3 against them, try to hold their longbeards away from the action. If you knock down a guard-longbears, follow the block, so he is away from the action and can´t get back soon.
ELF:
Like against all Elves, it´s hard to defend against them, but easy to score. Try slow touchdowns vs. them and bash em away on offense before they get the ball. Need tackle vs. them. And beware of passblockers.
HIGH ELVES:
Like against Elfs.
HUMAN:
Play them often (21 matches), and win often vs. them. Be carefull with the catchers, don´t let them run away (diving tackle on your catchers are a big point here). Freeze their lineman and blitzers without tackle on defense and offense (and their ogres!).
KHEMRI:
Played just 4 matches vs. them and lost 3 times. Their 4 mummies are hard to stop. Found no tactics vs. them.
LIZARDMEN:
Lizardman are some of the easiest opponents for amazons at medium TR (160-200). You have your first guards and tackle players, but their saurus mostly still lack tackle (because saurus mostly take block, break tackle, guard, mighty blow and other skills earlier). You can freeze saurus and kroxigor easy, when they lack break tackle. If you have a mb-tackler too, blitz the skinks all the time and take them out. Remember, that many skinks have diving tackle, so better look.
NECROMANTIC:
A medium opponent for amazons. If the werewolf have tackle, they can become quiet nasty. Also, Necromantic teams often foul a lot, and with your AV7, that´s no good thing. Also, the werewolves are fast, what´s a problem when you are at defense. Good thing is: Necros don´t have an apo for the wolves and the ghouls, so that should be your first targets. Freeze the Flesh Golems with a blodge linegirl or a rather unexperienced blitzer, whe you are at offense. Just foul back if you have a good opportunity, don´t foul zombies, wait till you get a werewolf or ghoul down between 3 or 4 of your players.
NORSE:
Norse are rather difficult for amazons, because they have all block and many lineman get tackle as their first skill. After their first skill, their catchers are like your catchers: very good defenders. With all that frenzy, they tend to push girls out into the crowd often, so make sure just your side-step catchers or stand firm blitzers stand on the side. Try to use their frenzy against them, put a guard behind girls that have contact to their blitzers, so they maybe have 2 dice blocks on their first block, but if they don´t have a pow, they have 2 dice against them on the 2nd block. Remember, that the blitzers have jump up, but just AV7. So maybe it´s a good idea to foul them, especially if the blitzers have mb-tackle or could push your girl out or close to the side.
NURGLE ROTTERS:
Remember the foul appereance, hand-offs are maybe better then passes. Freeze the beast with a linegirl and then forget the beast. Don´t make the mistake and move 4 girls to the beast and try to bring it down and blitz it or something. Those 4 girls will be lost a long time and in addition, the beast got regeneration and AV9, so you probably won´t get rid of it. The rest is the same as against Chaos.
OGRE:
Have just played 2 matches against ogres. The good thing is: They probably won´t have any tacklers. The bad thing is: all ogres have mighty blow and loads of guard, so they often get 3 dices on blocks. Use the "carefull" defense, blitz the goblins and wait on a opportunity. It´s good to have a linegirl with strip ball against them...
ORCS:
I play a lot of orcs. Most orcs will have 2 or 3 mb-tacklers, so you probably will get hurt. But they are slowly and you can stop them with just 6-8 players. Especially later, when they have skilled BoBs, those can be a problem for you. Try offense 2 and courageous defense, freeze the troll.
SKAVEN:
I played 11 times against them, but have a negative record (2/5/4), so I have no working tactic against them. You should have more guard then they have and their AV7 players don´t have dodge, so play bashy, try to have as much contact to their players as possible. Have always one or two tackle players in the back, even when you are at offense. That Gutter Runners will run away from you easily.
UNDEAD:
On offense, hold the mummies away from your cage, if possible. Wights often have tackle as their first skill. Bring down the zombies with guard, have a tackle-player for the ghouls and you should not have much problems on offense. Don´t foul back everything, maybe the ghouls. In defense, try to keep their mummies busy somewhere with one or two linegirls. Then you will have more guard players and can surround their cage. One tackle in the back is usefull, if the ghouls break out...
WOOD ELVES:
Have a negative statistic against those too (5/3/ . Beware of those leaping-strip ball blitzers. Try to take them out first. Go for a 8-turn-touchdown and beware of the one-turners. Make sure, your cage has at least one guard player on each side, so the leaping strip ballers will have 2 dices against them. Maybe, you can score with a thrower or another player with sure hands. Keep a tackle-player in the back.
GOBLINS AND HALFINGS:
Haven´t played those yet. I guess, it wouldn´t be that hard, because they all lack tackle...
To be continued... |
Last edited by Lishi on %b %25, %2006 - %14:%Oct; edited 4 times in total |
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OverDose
Joined: Apr 07, 2005
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Oct 25, 2006 - 01:33 |
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You forgot about the metagaming tips you use. Over 200 matches and 1 match against Dwarves ; P
This is a nice addition to the wiki section. I respect Lishi as a coach and I think he is one tough opponent. Though there are some things I like to do differently. Note: I'm not an expert Amazon coach!
i) You should not start with 2 Throwers. You can use a linegirl to support the other thrower if you want to. I like to support my thrower with a press near the LOS.
ii) I would skill up two Quarterbacks instead of a QB and a safety. You can use a linegirl to do the Gutter Runner hunt if you will. I like to use a press to "ensure" that the thrower gets to pick up the ball alone. I use this tactic since I feel that you need that extra player near the LOS handling midfield duties.
iii) If I get a +ST Thrower I will use my other Thrower as a Thrower. AG 4 Linewoman makes a nice Thrower but she will make a better Linewoman handling midfield duties (2+ RR mobile assist etc.)
iv) I absolutely love to have an opponent who leaves a player on a decent scoring position. That will give me a man advantage where it really counts. If things start to look like uncertain (an open cage or something like that) I'd might tie that player. Otherwise I'm just glad my opponent is not using all of his players.
v) I don't like to put Blitzers or blodge linos up to the LOS if I have rookie Linewomen because Blitzers are very expensive and Blodge Linewomen are not expendable. Sure this will increase your casualties received but I think that quality > quantity applies (usually) in BB. Also you'll give your opponent a free gangbang foul against the Blodger. |
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Alf115
Joined: Aug 17, 2005
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Oct 25, 2006 - 10:34 |
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I played my Khemris vs Zara, and I can assure you that she rocked vs my skellies. ANd When Khemri team run out of skellies, what can you do with 4 Mummies and the ball 
Nice article by the way.
I did not know that linewomen could not taken agility skills on normal rolls. Silly me. |
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Arcon
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
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Oct 25, 2006 - 10:42 |
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Very cool article!
Gave me some ideas for my young amazon team.
Lot of your advice is valid for many races, but some is special with amazons.
I just do not feel good when starting without an apo. Especially if you play tournaments and it might be Norse, Dwaf, Chaos Dwarf etc. you face in your first game(s). I think i would drop the second thrower and FF to 6 to start with your stated roster and an apo. |
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Lishi
Joined: Oct 11, 2005
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Oct 25, 2006 - 10:50 |
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@Overdose: Well, maybe our playing styles are different. I usually throw a short pass or quick pass in my first turn. I have no use for a very good thrower, so on offense, my throwers have to do linegirl duties on turn 3-8. So I like to have a thrower with block and tackle soon. Another reason is: As amazon coach with AV7 you will have to put your throwers on the pitch in defense too, because you run out of players. |
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Lishi
Joined: Oct 11, 2005
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Oct 25, 2006 - 14:54 |
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Added the "Amazons vs. other races" point... |
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zerkalo
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
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Oct 25, 2006 - 15:13 |
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If you want to win as many games as possible, the tactic for any team is:
search gamefinder for the easiest game possible. If your team is 200/200, try to find a team that is 301/160. Then challenge it. If he/she denies, challenge the 2nd easiest. Continue for as long as you get a game. Do not ever play games where you give handicaps, or where other team isn't at least 15 TS worse than your team. |
_________________
<A HREF="http://fumbbl.com/help:ShepherdOnFouling">Biggest pile of lameness EVER said about fouling</A> |
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Pro511
Joined: Aug 14, 2006
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Oct 27, 2006 - 18:03 |
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| zerkalo wrote: | If you want to win as many games as possible, the tactic for any team is:
search gamefinder for the easiest game possible. If your team is 200/200, try to find a team that is 301/160. Then challenge it. If he/she denies, challenge the 2nd easiest. Continue for as long as you get a game. Do not ever play games where you give handicaps, or where other team isn't at least 15 TS worse than your team. |
Why even play the game at all? Just buy the board game, set it up in your home. Since you've got no friends, you win my default. You get both the money and the MVPs.
My painted Orcs are 38-0-0.
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LordSnotball
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
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Oct 27, 2006 - 18:28 |
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i have a couple of other things to add...
my catchers ended up being diversified... i got my 1st catcher block, sure feet, NoS. The result was that i could use her to run forward and make a solid contribution to the cage as she had blodge and could safely go that extra bit safely... and with NoS i could hand the ball off to her, blitz any annoying TZs away and score if needed.
My 2nd catcher ended up with 4ag, at which point i got side step, planning on diving tackle at some point, and maybe then block. Basically with 4ag she can dodge from almost anywhere on defence and TZ an opponent's ball carrier.
Other than that, block + guard makes the amazons veery efficient, and scary
lovely article btw |
_________________
-Snottie
The Congregation - Always Recruiting
[url=http://igolocal.net/badge.php?user_id=1949] [/url] |
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Lishi
Joined: Oct 11, 2005
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Dec 11, 2006 - 17:56 |
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I played 200th amazon match now... ...me knows zons! |
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fishgeekted
Joined: Oct 07, 2005
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Dec 11, 2006 - 18:19 |
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Thanks for the good article! I have a young zon team with 15 games under their bra strings and they seem to like the game! As a rookie zon coach, I really appreciate you taking the time to write this article.
My one weakness that I need to start working on, is lack of guard and tackle. Almost no one has it, but my 16 player roster are all bodgers minus one thrower.
I took jump up on the catcher and she does well with that.
Thanks for good info! |
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Dominik
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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Dec 11, 2006 - 18:49 |
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| Arcon wrote: | Very cool article!
Gave me some ideas for my young amazon team.
Lot of your advice is valid for many races, but some is special with amazons.
I just do not feel good when starting without an apo. Especially if you play tournaments and it might be Norse, Dwaf, Chaos Dwarf etc. you face in your first game(s). I think i would drop the second thrower and FF to 6 to start with your stated roster and an apo. |
I started two RRR's with Zons (good starting team actually) but without Apothecary, and I regretted it - although I didn't have to play Norse or Dwarfs. |
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Fama
Joined: Feb 09, 2005
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Dec 11, 2006 - 19:48 |
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Nice article, but could you please make an anti-amazon article? What works very well against your zons? |
_________________
I love deadlines. I like the wooshing sound they make when they fly by. -Douglas Adams
 Side step this! |
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lord_real
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 11, 2006 - 19:56 |
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| Fama wrote: | | Nice article, but could you please make an anti-amazon article? What works very well against your zons? |
Tackle |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 11, 2006 - 19:56 |
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Nice one Lishi - tips taken on board. |
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