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Yet another thread about Cherry Picking and CR
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SideshowBob



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 15:22 Reply with quote Back to top
Before you start flaming, this is no accusation thread, just a small suggestion.
Many will probably think "I don't care about CR anyway", but since it is there, why not try to make it better?

In R there are two kinds of cherrypicking.

1. The coaches who tries to play "soft" teams to build their own.
2. Coaches that tries to boost their CR by only playing noobs.

The first one is hard to do much about as long as R is going to be an open and free division. I have nothing against this (imho no ranking points should be dealt at all in an environment like this, but that's not the point with this post)

The second one is much easier to deal with. Here's the suggestion:
* Keep the ranking as it is in official tournaments.
* In regular R games - you can only GAIN CR points by playing vs coaches that has a CR close to yours (maybe 15 points or so). You can still play and pick noobs all you want, but that won't affect your CR unless you lose. If you tie or lose, you should lose CR the same way as you do today.

This means that if you want to climb at the CR ladder, you either have to play better and better coaches or play official tournaments.

And for all the people who don't care about CR, or just want to cherrypick so they'll have a kickass elf team, won't notice any change.
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 15:29 Reply with quote Back to top
Sad

I saw 'Yet another thread a[bout] ...' and hoped it was going to be 'fouling'. Or at least 'stalling'. This is less fun. Sad

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Meech



Joined: Sep 15, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 15:32 Reply with quote Back to top
SideshowBob wrote:
Before you start flaming, this is no accusation thread, just a small suggestion.
Many will probably think "I don't care about CR anyway", but since it is there, why not try to make it better?

In R there are two kinds of cherrypicking.

1. The coaches who tries to play "soft" teams to build their own.
2. Coaches that tries to boost their CR by only playing noobs.

The first one is hard to do much about as long as R is going to be an open and free division. I have nothing against this (imho no ranking points should be dealt at all in an environment like this, but that's not the point with this post)

The second one is much easier to deal with. Here's the suggestion:
* Keep the ranking as it is in official tournaments.
* In regular R games - you can only GAIN CR points by playing vs coaches that has a CR close to yours (maybe 15 points or so). You can still play and pick noobs all you want, but that won't affect your CR unless you lose. If you tie or lose, you should lose CR the same way as you do today.

This means that if you want to climb at the CR ladder, you either have to play better and better coaches or play official tournaments.

And for all the people who don't care about CR, or just want to cherrypick so they'll have a kickass elf team, won't notice any change.


1.) If I cared about CR, and thought it was a good measure of a coaches skill, I would prefer it was for Ranked tournies only.
2.) CR gains and losses (I think)are weighted by the CR difference in coaches as well as TR/TS.

Edit: High Road Friday!

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pizzamogul



Joined: Jun 13, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 15:35 Reply with quote Back to top
Image

"Johnny, I... I don't think it's breathing anymore?!?"

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Meech



Joined: Sep 15, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 15:42 Reply with quote Back to top
::Throws a yellow flag at Pizza::

1.)Today is High Road Friday!
2.)You used the beating the dead horse reference last night during the "discussion" about a certain skill.

15 YARDS!

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PistolPete



Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 15:56 Reply with quote Back to top
Ok, here's my opinion for whats it worth.

I think I may come under the 'noobs' banner that Bob put in his post, and being a 'noob' I do sometimes need to pick and choose who I play. That doesn't mean to say I won't play a high flying coach it just means that given the choice I'll prefer to play someone in my 'noob' ranking.

But everyone has the right to chose who they want to play, and I don't feel you're ever going to get a system that will put that right.(if indeed it's wrong)
I do however like the second idea, as very and I do mean very occasionally I've been known to beat high ranking coaches which does more for me, and than it does my ranking.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 16:20 Reply with quote Back to top
Coaches are told "go play some good coaches to improve our skill".

This rule takes away any incentive there is for a high CR coach to slum it with the rest of us. Smile
(Except maybe in [A]cademy)

Coaches with very low CR could wait ages for a game.

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Meech



Joined: Sep 15, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 16:23 Reply with quote Back to top
koadah wrote:

Coaches with very low CR could wait ages for a game.


Or a very high CR. Both the extremes would suffer. The Middle Class shall rise again and eat cake!

So much for my high road Friday.

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Arcon



Joined: Mar 01, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 16:28 Reply with quote Back to top
He, at least you could have added a poll when starting another CR topic!
Laughing

Your first suggestion would make CR almost needless, because first not all do or can participitate in tourneys (and we had an even greater run at the RRR and some Smacks), and second, since far less games are involved, CR will be much more a matter of luck. How many tournament games have you watched with the underdog winning just out of pure luck (ingame, or handicaps)?

The second suggestion penalizes high CR coaches who would need to search for opponents. And as said before, playing with a great CR-difference will result in a very slight increase in case you win. And it will lead to a great loss should you tie or lose. So there is sort of what you suggest implemented.
pizzamogul



Joined: Jun 13, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 16:29 Reply with quote Back to top
Meech wrote:
1.)Today is High Road Friday!
2.)You used the beating the dead horse reference last night during the "discussion" about a certain skill.


Now, wait a minute! I was told in the last chatroom session that Thursday is High Road day and today is "Double-Foul Friday". Jeez - I bet Saturday has been changed too and now I'm stuck with this costume rental...

My apologies for the "dead horse" reference. I'm still working on my material. I guess I've...
Image
"gone to the well one too many times" with that joke.

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Last edited by pizzamogul on %b %01, %2006 - %21:%Dec; edited 1 time in total
Bytez0r



Joined: May 28, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 17:10 Reply with quote Back to top
that means that ppl wont play low rateing coaches at all, if theres no 'gain' in winning. i can only analyze it to see that there would be so much more picking going on..
SideshowBob



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 17:17 Reply with quote Back to top
Arcon wrote:

Your first suggestion would make CR almost needless, because first not all do or can participitate in tourneys (and we had an even greater run at the RRR and some Smacks), and second, since far less games are involved, CR will be much more a matter of luck. How many tournament games have you watched with the underdog winning just out of pure luck (ingame, or handicaps)?


Well, most of the high CR coaches today (including myself) have got that CR because of succesful tournament play. So I doubt it is a matter of mostly luck. And the favourite usually wins I think.

Arcon wrote:

The second suggestion penalizes high CR coaches who would need to search for opponents. And as said before, playing with a great CR-difference will result in a very slight increase in case you win. And it will lead to a great loss should you tie or lose. So there is sort of what you suggest implemented.


High CR coaches already have to search for opponents since many coaches (mostly danes tough) avoids them. But they aren't penalized, since they still can play teambuilding games versus lower CR coaches. But they cannot cherrypick their way up in the ranking.


Last edited by SideshowBob on %b %01, %2006 - %17:%Dec; edited 1 time in total
SideshowBob



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 17:18 Reply with quote Back to top
Edit: Double post
SideshowBob



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 17:20 Reply with quote Back to top
Bytez0r wrote:
that means that ppl wont play low rateing coaches at all, if theres no 'gain' in winning. i can only analyze it to see that there would be so much more picking going on..


Very wrong. Most people still play in Ranked to build teams, and that's where the low CR coaches are more than useful.
Macavity



Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2006 - 17:21 Reply with quote Back to top
Or we could play faction. Not that I will.

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