Geenimetsuri
Joined: Jun 08, 2004
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 Posted:
Jun 13, 2007 - 00:52 |
 
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Thanks to my 'net being what it is I often get disconnects that last for a minute or so (that's one reason why I only play against familiar people who understand when my connection does fail).
When reconnecting succeeds things almost always go fubar in multiple ways causing the game to fail (esp. turn changes/turnovers are very badly registered) leading to a reload.
When reoading a game, some moves are almost always unregistered with players becoming misplaced with placement depending on who's screen you're watching ...Having to restart a game because saves are in complete asynch isn't a rarity, while walking over players or complete ignorance of recently moved players' tacklezones are pretty much expected. 
It really shouldn't be that hard to compare the save versions and rollback the situation up to the last compatible point, it would save me and my opponents - and other badly connected people  - a lot of hassle to make things work well enough.
One solution could be to have multiple saves under on-going-game (or somesuch) folder: After each move a new savegame file would be made, then the client could check which save is the last (compatible) one that exists on both comps and use that.
edit:
Oh, yes...I would also like to see save files incorporate more data from the game. Stuff like handicaps (eg. Greatest!) apparently aren't in the save file at all or so an opponent of mine commented. 
(another idea I have would be quick key - like hold Alt to see - tacklezone highlight)
(ok, one more: Ability to visually mark players on the field, say with red/green/yellow dot, to signify certain skills/abilities like tackle, guard, +ST, etc..). |
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SkiJunkie
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jun 13, 2007 - 17:00 |
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Geenimetsuri
Joined: Jun 08, 2004
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Jun 13, 2007 - 17:22 |
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| SkiJunkie wrote: | | not using proxy connections will greatly reduce your connection/reload woes. |
It's not the proxy, it's the fact that my internet connection dies for 30 seconds to a minute or two at a time.
Unless you're saying that not using the proxy causes *less* synch failures? In that case: Thx for the advice, anything that helps things go more smoothly is appreciated  |
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Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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Jun 13, 2007 - 17:25 |
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| Geenimetsuri wrote: |
(another idea I have would be quick key - like hold Alt to see - tacklezone highlight)
(ok, one more: Ability to visually mark players on the field, say with red/green/yellow dot, to signify certain skills/abilities like tackle, guard, +ST, etc..). |
No offense... but are you that lazy? Why not make an perfect AI so you dont have to play at all? You really want to take away all the fun and challenge? |
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Russo
Joined: Apr 11, 2006
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Jun 13, 2007 - 17:34 |
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Whilst I agree with the comment on Synching can be a minefield for many coaches and there is no clarity on this issue, I think that the clarity of the process for reloading maybe worked on within FUMBBL and not the client.
As for your points about highlighted squares it makes me think of a client that one day plays the game for you
The coach always needs to take ownership of the game and all decision making, and I feel that changes to client should only affect three things:
1- Useability (functions that enable you to perform the actions in LRB)
2- Speed / Graphics
3- Rule obayance (removal of OFAB bug etc)
What you have suggested in your initial post does not fit these three aspects, it is a substitue for coaching awareness. You would not see Alex Ferguson the manager of Manchester Utd expecting FIFA to provide him with notes on opposition players everytime he sees one running with the ball  |
_________________
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[21:35] <@Purp|away> why is it whenever I come to check the PC, Russo is lowering the tone?! 
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[22:59] <princevaliant> ty Russo 
BiggieB is my idol |
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Geenimetsuri
Joined: Jun 08, 2004
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Jun 13, 2007 - 17:35 |
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| Woodstock wrote: | | No offense... but are you that lazy? Why not make an perfect AI so you dont have to play at all? You really want to take away all the fun and challenge? |
Oh, you mean like how the client remembers your tackle, dodge, sure feet, sure hands, pass, block, horns, etc.. skills without you having to do anything?
It's not a question of laziness it's a question of usability: In TT if your player has got a new skill you're bound to forget it's existence at some stage (pass block being notorious) especially if the miniature looks *exactly* the same as other miniatures (as is the case in JavaBB).
Tackle zone highlight would only improve perspective of the playing field and it would also highlight "hidden goblins" (which is something that would not happen in TT) or players that are faded out because they have moved, it wouldn't make winning (if you play to win, that is) a game any easier.
edit:
Ok, not highlight TZs but players with a press of a button, this way you could figure out tacklezones by yourself. |
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Candlejack
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jun 13, 2007 - 18:15 |
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you are not mentioning any sync attempts after reloading.. many people do not know that you can make the client sync to the state of your opponent.. that way both have the same game state.. from what you write it sounds like you did not do that at all.. and as ski said, using direct connection is way better because the connection loss gets recognized faster than going over the proxy plus the game is more stable anyways.. |
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The Sanity Resort |
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Khudzlin
Joined: May 24, 2007
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Jun 13, 2007 - 18:17 |
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To be sure not to miss players, you can switch to the "letter" display; as letters, the goblins will be just as visible as any other players.
As for the skills, you can see the list when you mouse over a player. Any stat changes are also visible there (green for increases, red for decreases and niggling injuries).
Though I would like a way to fix an opposing player in the bottom-left display so I can scroll through his skill list even when my opponent isn't using that player.
I've seen a minotaur with 2 additional skills and couldn't see the most recent one unless the minotaur was being used, which is impractical, because I have no control over that. |
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spelledaren
Joined: Mar 06, 2004
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Jun 13, 2007 - 18:43 |
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And yes, playing via direct server does give you much less problems with sync after a load.
And syncing often gives you two balls, but even this can be solved, as told by Candlejack at some time:
<Candlejack> reload with .inc
<Candlejack> sync
<Candlejack> end the turn
<Candlejack> reload again with .dat
<Candlejack> problem solved
<Candlejack> you just can't move the ball carrier before you reload with .dat
<Candlejack> due to the two ball issue caused by the sync
<Candlejack> and yes.. play direct whenever you can |
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FUMBBL! |
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Geenimetsuri
Joined: Jun 08, 2004
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Jun 13, 2007 - 19:39 |
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| Candlejack wrote: | | you are not mentioning any sync attempts after reloading.. many people do not know that you can make the client sync to the state of your opponent.. that way both have the same game state.. from what you write it sounds like you did not do that at all.. |
Cool..How can I do that? DL opponent's save file? I tried searching for 'sync', 'load' or 'save' from the client's readme and couldn't find anything (well, except for 'verbose dice sync' which isn't quite what I had in mind )
Also, why isn't it automagic?
| Khudzin wrote: | | To be sure not to miss players, you can switch to the "letter" display; as letters, the goblins will be just as visible as any other players. |
Apparently there's a hold down quick key 'N' which does wondrous things.
I'm too accustomed to pressing F1 - or some such - for help on quick keys I s'pose instead of RTFMing...with the correct words (quick [key] or keyboard didn't find anything, also the keys are not mentioned in readme index but are under game play notes(!)) 
In other words, you may ignore my HL tackle zone requests....well, except for Academy games (it would still make a cool client *option*)
| Quote: | | As for the skills, you can see the list when you mouse over a player. Any stat changes are also visible there (green for increases, red for decreases and niggling injuries). |
Yah, I know.
It's just that while moving your player or while opponent moves a player you have to manually check which of those two bull centaurs had guard/tackle instead of, say, that 'red one' had guard in Tabletop. Also during pass, how many times have you completely ignored pass block skill on tabletop or while doing a pass in JavaBowl because there's only the manual way of checking it out?
Adding markers (btw. you can add them to the field already) would make it easier to not do stupid mistakes - Patience and taking time to check and double check every player's skills is not IMO something that belongs to relatively fast paced game that's online BBowl when there could be an easy "paint" fix for it |
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Geenimetsuri
Joined: Jun 08, 2004
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Jun 28, 2007 - 09:03 |
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| Geenimetsuri wrote: | | Candlejack wrote: | | you are not mentioning any sync attempts after reloading.. many people do not know that you can make the client sync to the state of your opponent.. that way both have the same game state.. from what you write it sounds like you did not do that at all.. |
Cool..How can I do that? DL opponent's save file? I tried searching for 'sync', 'load' or 'save' from the client's readme and couldn't find anything (well, except for 'verbose dice sync' which isn't quite what I had in mind ) |
After testing, after a disconnect, I found out that the command is /sync - Thanks guys for helping me find it out. 
Too bad it doesn't sync things like turn changes - For example, I was s'posed to kick but couldn't as the opponent had already pressed 'end turn' after placing players on the pitch.
Had to redo a difficult TD in previous turn because of that.
Infact, I would like to see saves keep track of the game state better (like a new 'save' after placing and/or moving a player in the pitch during setup phase and much better tracking of whose turn it is) |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jun 28, 2007 - 09:21 |
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| spelledaren wrote: | And yes, playing via direct server does give you much less problems with sync after a load.
And syncing often gives you two balls, but even this can be solved, as told by Candlejack at some time:
<Candlejack> reload with .inc
<Candlejack> sync
<Candlejack> end the turn
<Candlejack> reload again with .dat
<Candlejack> problem solved
<Candlejack> you just can't move the ball carrier before you reload with .dat
<Candlejack> due to the two ball issue caused by the sync
<Candlejack> and yes.. play direct whenever you can |
That is no magic trick, because it makes you lose a turn, and cannot move ballcarrier.
To be honest, I think the save/load thing in the client is THE top priority for the next version. No 4 min rule, no standfirm on pushes or ofab TDs bugs.
The Save/Load system in the client is just too buggy. And disconnections happen.
At least, that would be my vote for the first thing to be fixed in the client. |
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