FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

celas

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Mar 25, 2009 - 23:32

PainState wrote:

Man Celas now you got me thinking about this wholle end of season crap. I dont like to think man.

I will defend Sami in this that its not like he is not making an attempt to get the game in either. He has his side of the story also. SO if we go by rules we are going to have to have a committe meeting just to detemine by our own frankenstein monster rules for forfeits. Which could lead to Sami falling to 3rd but still ahead of you. Lets just hope it does not come to that.

(to have to have) is that even proper english?

I understand that if a forfeit does happen it may not be enough to allow me to sneak in. I just wanted to make sure I did not miss out on a chance to fall on Mully's elves again. I mean, it went so well the first time (I think he had 5 CAS on me and only a couple on him). Also, Tod booted me from NEW tourney to avoid my gangsta slapping of his team so I wanted a shot at some kind of playoff.

Anyone who wants to make a stunty team or vamps can go ahead and make them without a draft.

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Da_Todfatha

Joined: Jul 06, 2004

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 04:48

Rules Changes for Season 13
Round Length 7 days, begin/end Thursday night!
DP limits slide over 1 so Premier unlimited, 2 max in vet, 1 DP allowed in Fringe.
Win/Draw/Loss points changed to 4/2/1
Promote/Demote 3up 3 down in Premier and vet.
Provisional rule: Advantage: teams may hire a star or wizard twice per season(or 2 stars, 0 wizards, etc. total 2) any combination. this rule is a one season trial. Use it while you got it.

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Mully

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 06:45

Dat and all - I will be taking season #13 off.

I've enjoyed how you run the league but have limited time and do not like direction the new rules are taking us. This looks more like SWL than what the NWL originally stood for.

Thanks for running everything.

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AlcingRagaholic

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 15:28

Da_Todfatha wrote:

Rules Changes for Season 13
Round Length 7 days, begin/end Thursday night!
DP limits slide over 1 so Premier unlimited, 2 max in vet, 1 DP allowed in Fringe.
Win/Draw/Loss points changed to 4/2/1
Promote/Demote 3up 3 down in Premier and vet.
Provisional rule: Advantage: teams may hire a star or wizard twice per season(or 2 stars, 0 wizards, etc. total 2) any combination. this rule is a one season trial. Use it while you got it.

I'm fine with most of those changes, except I still think we should allow 1 DP in NEW as well.

7 days is gonna be rough, but I think we can manage.

Z

PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 16:18

MMMMMM

1)Round length: I think it should have stayed at 10 but ok 7 is fine by me. Although I still think this will increase extensions.

2)DP's: Fine, another compromise rule.

3)Scoring: Ok cool, It rewards ties now a little by reducing winning. Maybe it will make it closer at the end.

4)Promote/demote: Well I like the turnover and based on each season that could be a good thing or bad for all the teams involved.

5)Provisional Rule: In my books its allready way to convoluted. From my persepective only: my human team just got the hose. We either allow them (both) or do not. Who is going to be in charge of checking up on this again? a govt oversight board?

So I will trudge forward and keep dismantling as many teams as I can and just hope it works out in the end. Only elves are really worried about those damn rules anyway. All the rest of us just need to pile up the corpses and check the scoreboard at the end of the game.

Playoffs? I quess that was a provisonal rule this last season. Are we going to keep it or just slag the entire playoff and move on?

Well with Mully taking off and demoting the bottom 3 from premier I quess that means Cyric and myself better strap on the chin straps and get ready for the rough and tumble world of Premier. IF Father does go ahead and retire his elf team. It will be rough but I got vengance on my mind against Celas and Lucky.

Good luck Mully I hope to see you back in season #14.

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altus_bellator

Joined: Oct 12, 2005

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 17:00

Da_Todfatha wrote:

Rules Changes for Season 13
Round Length 7 days, begin/end Thursday night!
DP limits slide over 1 so Premier unlimited, 2 max in vet, 1 DP allowed in Fringe.
Win/Draw/Loss points changed to 4/2/1
Promote/Demote 3up 3 down in Premier and vet.
Provisional rule: Advantage: teams may hire a star or wizard twice per season(or 2 stars, 0 wizards, etc. total 2) any combination. this rule is a one season trial. Use it while you got it.

I'm pleased with most of the changes, with the exception of DPs and the provisional rule.

Provisional rules and house rules are one of the fastest ways to destroy a league. When it comes to things like wizards and stars, I think we should leave it black and white...all or none, now the first time someone pulls the star or wizard card on me, I am going to make them wait, look through their past games, setup a little spreadsheet of who can and who can't use a star against me, and heaven help the poor sap who makes a mistake here and hires a star or wizard by accident forgetting they have already used their allocated 2....see where I am going with that? Smile

As far as DPs go, I think a team should be left up to the coach to develop how they see fit, without whining from other coaches afraid their players are going to get hurt.

I would much rather play a team full of DPs than say block persay, but that is because I realize a team developed with real skills will win far more often than a team setup with one skill across the board. Something I learned a long time ago from Synn, and a lesson some of you may have learned from him as well Smile

One of the fastest ways to ruin a league is to overthink and house rule it to death, which I think we are a FAR way from, but also think we need to be reminded can be a problem if left unchecked.

To all the admins, seriously, you guys are doing awesome. This is the best league I've ever been a part of on Fumbbl and appreciate all you do for us so we can continue to have a fun group of peeps to play with, while managing to avoid the "joys" that is the ranked division. Wink

Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 18:37

With people choosing to drop out of an upper division... does that affect the promote/demote rules?

For example 3 demoted Premiere and 3 promoted Vet teams swap places.
This keeps the teams equal in each division.
BUT if 1 Premiere team decides to quit for any reason where does their replacement come from?
If it comes from Vet does that mean an extra Fringe team moves up?

PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 18:46

YEP...the teams that are lacking will all move up from fringe into the VET.

Now this is not offical but just my discussion with the Vet Coaches over the season. 4 of the 8 VET teams will probally be retired. Dont know if the coach is retiring but the team is.

NOW

With Mully leaving and the new 3 team demote. That means 4 teams right now will be leaving the premier. The last 4 teams standing in the VET will move up. The 3 demoted teams will drop to VET which leaves a void of 5 teams in the VET.

Thats how it looks right now. IF this is wrong TODD or someone else with more knowledge than me please correct me and tell us how it is.

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Alexis

Joined: Jan 29, 2005

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 20:09

Da_Todfatha wrote:

Rules Changes for Season 13
Round Length 7 days, begin/end Thursday night!
DP limits slide over 1 so Premier unlimited, 2 max in vet, 1 DP allowed in Fringe.
Win/Draw/Loss points changed to 4/2/1
Promote/Demote 3up 3 down in Premier and vet.
Provisional rule: Advantage: teams may hire a star or wizard twice per season(or 2 stars, 0 wizards, etc. total 2) any combination. this rule is a one season trial. Use it while you got it.

Good for me.

goat314

Joined: Nov 23, 2008

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 20:43

I suck at forum posting, I tried to post this earlier and it didn't go.

I feel coaches retiring should take place of a demotion. Otherwise, If the bottom 2 coaches in a division retire, then you demote 4th, 5th and 6th and promote 1st through 5th of the lower division. You'd be promoting teams that finished lower than the teams in the higher division they are replacing.

Haxtor

Joined: Aug 16, 2008

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 21:04

It looks like there is going to be a big shakeup from premiere to vet to fringe regardless of how it gets handled. I am not overly considered about the politics of how it is handled, but I would like to see each division try to remain competitive throughout the division.
For example I don't really want to see premiere have an average tr of 200 with a couple teams around the 150 range, big discrepencies in any division should be avoided if possible.
Thats just my 2cents though it will be fun to see how everything works out

screech

Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 21:20

Pain, the 3 team demotions starts next season. So only steel, and tod are demoted this season, and only 2 vets move up, barring other prem coaches leaving for some reason or another. So it might be 4 promotions anyway.
However I agree with you about the provisional hiring rules, way too complicated, and how is it going to be kept track of?
7 day rounds i'm not a fan of but I can live with for now i guess.
What about the stupid champeenship?
Which in no way is an unbiased question.

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PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 21:39

Hitting some of the thoughts from the last two pages.

On one level I do agree that we might be way overthinking some of this stuff.
When I first got into the NWL I believe season #6. WE had unlimted DP's Stars and wizards. Why was that bad again? Over the last few seasons I think we have forgotten why we changed to begin with beside the few flame wars with coaches who were crying and carrying on. Iam fine with all these changes its just the bigger picture that gets blurred as the seasons go by.

Screech Iam just going to assume the premier championship will only be played this season and go away. I dont know, but I dont hear a ground swell of support for it.

7day deadlines, but Iam positive that IF there is communication going on then extensions will be granted.

On the demotion talk a few back. In the end I have no idea who is retiring or not. Its just based on what I have heard from the various coaches in the NWL. To be totally honest I would like to promote for the challenge BUT my team really needs to stay in VET one more season. Plus it gives me another shot at TODD who I now have a grudge against based on our last NWL game, Oh and I plan on really hurting his team. I need a rules clairification. Is it two games you can hire a star or wizard or only two total. Because I was hoping to draw Todd the last game of the season and save all my money so I can hire a Wizard and all the Human stars just for that one game.

Well my thoughts on the changes for next season and another shot to redeem my sorry ass human team.

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Da_Todfatha

Joined: Jul 06, 2004

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 23:04

excellent discussion on the rules changes, so far, all the comments (which have so far been delivered in a very constructive way) have not fallen on deaf ears, and I appreciate the various perspectives. PainState, I look forward to every chance you get for revenge. heheh

As for promotion/demotion, NWL is a competitive league. Therefore we want a full Premier division, with the best teams available, however that means by record, not by TR or TS. Mismatches could, and do occur.

This season, Steel and I demote from Premier, Mully goes on hiatus, and rumors abound that screech may also take a season off. that would be 4 teams down so the top 4 Vet teams (that plan on playing in season 13) would move up. normally it would have been just 2, the watering down of Premier is to the advantage of the Vet teams, imo. but regardless, there is nothing else to be done. Remember, especially this season the top ranked Premier teams will be culling their roster to make the TR Caps.

Next season we will go to 3 up 3 down promoting. then retirements in addition. Turnover is good. Many coaches will not want to go through a demotion, sometimes the culling is painful, this is healthy for NWL as it provides new coaches with a chance at Premier. Starting out in NEW and seeing your way clear to Premier is a daunting task.

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PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 23:17

Ok let me clarify some things before my last post sets off a flame war.

We are starting to touch on the real hot issues for the NWL here and those seem to get coaches all bent out of shape.

Here is my real issue.

DP's: In the past it was unlimited. That started a discussion that we should tone that down. Enough coaches raised a stink that it was then moved to 1 a roster. That then got some blow back 2 seasons later about balance issues and enough coaches bitched and it got moved to the 2-1-0 ratio. Then another round of debate, more panties in a wad and now we are slowly creeping back to unlimited for game balance.

Stars/Wizards: Used to be unlimited. Then some games were decided at the end of the season by bottom feeders and serious underdogs as they upset the front runners. Stars and Wizzys were to blame and more panties get waded up and we then outlaw both but then more panties are waded up and we go half way and allow the wizards. The undead coaches, but there are so few, get their panties all waded but since those garmets smell and are rotted we dont really care.

The main point. These three issues are the BIG three in the NWL. WHY? because you could argue they effect the balance of power between the various races, effect indirectly which coaches have the advantage and indirectly skew the Premeier towards the ballers.

All my seasons in the NWL these 3 issues have allways come up and are debated with passion and coaches have left over them.
It seems to me that as a league we are swayed by the passions of the season and then go back and compromise to quell the debate. I think what fuels the debate is that every season we seem to allways change the rules for these three issues. There is no continunity to the rules and that I think is what upsets coaches. They might not like this rule or that but they play and move on. Then all of a sudden the winds change and these rules are once again debated to their way of thinking and that sets off another round of debate because they want the league to fall in line with their way of playing and set the wholle cycle off again.

SO

Lets just set these in freaking stone and do not become swayed by the passions of the forums and keep going back and forth on these hot button issues.

Make it cut and dry and the debate is OVER.

I dont care which way it goes but lets end it and make these three rules permanant and move on. Let the chips fall were they are and move on.

Anbody who has been in the league for a whille knows were I stand on all these issues so I will not go into that again.

SO Todd this one is all on you. Take a stand on these three issues and end it, please.

Ok screech that was my well thought out response to your post many pages ago.