Da_Todfatha
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
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 Posted:
Apr 07, 2009 - 05:25 |
 
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If playing 2 teams is a problem, like, you don't want to play with both, or you don't think you will have the time, then let me know. Otherwise you will not be allowed to have 2 teams in the same division (for obvious reasons) and unexcused forfeited games will be cumulative toward you being booted from the league, otherwise, you are good to go. <-- Note this is a change in policy, as I feel the coaches that want to be here communicate with their opponents, and get their matches played. With the 7 day rounds we won't have time to wait to see who's going to get a game played in the 5 days following a deadline.  ) Cool? |
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NWL
UMT
O.C.C.S. |
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mwilli72
Joined: Jun 17, 2007
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Apr 07, 2009 - 06:02 |
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Cool by me, I just wanted to make sure I was within league rules. |
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goat314
Joined: Nov 23, 2008
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Apr 07, 2009 - 13:15 |
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lol, I am confused. Is my team not going into Fringe? Despite there only being 1 Basher in the division? |
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xyon
Joined: Apr 19, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2009 - 04:00 |
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looks good to me. |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | Whenever I think I might be wrong, I check with xyon to make sure I'm always right. |
| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | Hey Xyon you need to change your sig son, I never said anything vaguely like that! |
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HickoryDuff
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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Apr 08, 2009 - 04:16 |
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screech
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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Apr 08, 2009 - 08:17 |
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Dang, I can't believe I'm doing this, cuz as my Pappy once said, "Arguing on the internet is like arguing with stupid. There’s no difference, you’ll never get your point across, and at best it'll only give you a headache." But your reply is insulting
| Vol wrote: |
Clearly, you have no idea what roshambo is. Please, spend some time at Wikipedia, or Google, or in sunlight. 
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Don't f'n insult my intelligence. If you bothered to use some rudimentary form of reading comprehension, instead of blindly chanting your "Unbalanced!" mantra, you would of noticed that I disagree to the idea that bloodbowl is a game of simple counters with one out of whacked element.
I claim that tenet as flawed.
A game of simple counters? That sounds like I know exactly what roshambo is yes/no?
| Vol wrote: |
On a serious note, elfballing is not all powerful and unstoppable. Elves have very clear weaknesses. One can bash an elf team into submission. And an elf team can try to play keep away to defeat a bashy team.
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On a serious note, all you said here is fine and dandy but has nothing to do with anything that I originally said.
I said nothing about elfbowling. I'm aware of the advantages and disadvantages of elfball, just as I'm aware of advantages and disadvantages of a more bashy strategy. I wasn't discussing the merits of either.
I described only 1 tactic that any team can use, and at times need to use, but that elven teams exceed at. I'm saying as a tactic for elves it is too effective and there is little way to skill your players to counter it. I offered that to look at only player's skills to counter your opponent's tactics would be a route that will lead to failure.
| Vol wrote: |
The rock breaks the scissors that cut the paper that wrap the rock that break scissors that cut the paper that wrap the rock....
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Thank you for your lesson in childhood games, I is an retarted and would of never grasp the concept of rochambeau without your elucidation (<- oh look I can sound pretentious too).
The thing is bloodbowl, even when boiled down to its simplest mechanics, is not rock/paper/scissors. To continue to simplify it into a straightforward chain of counters is going to lead to a lot of losses, both in players and games.
Even if you expand it to a couple dozen options besides rock/paper/scissors, adding bigger rocks, lizard, acid, a rock hammer (A really really big rock hammer) and so on, you still won't get anything like the complexity of bloodbowl. Because in bb sometimes paper beats paper, and in bloodbowl sometimes paper beats scissors. Like when tackle (the scissors to dodge's paper) is detrimental to a series of chainpushing.
| Vol wrote: |
With fouling, all one can do is arrange defensive assists and/or foul back, never mind the fact that it is a straight armor roll, nothing else matters, so there are races at this point that clearly can't keep up. The game changes. It is now rock on rock. Who has the biggest rock?
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Conjecture and other untruths.
Things one can do against fouling: arrange defensive assists, foul back (these were your alpha and omega of options but wait there's more) not foul back, not foul back until the opportunity makes it favorable to foul back, not foul back but have the threat that you can hurt them right back so they better be picky with their fouls or not foul at all, arrange it so the only ideal foul would put them horribly out of position thus allowing you to control the field for the rest of the half, arrange it so the only opportunity they have to foul are not cost effective to the consequences of said action, and I could go on. Note that most of these counters are only indirectly related to player skills and most of these counters if correctly used can stop fouling from destroying your team.
Yes dice will happen, and if they are dead set against you there is nothing you can do, so that’s why I won't mind the fact that it is a straight armor roll. Because that would ignore the injury roll that follows it. Nor the fact that some races can't keep up (with what exactly I'm not sure) because that would ignore the fact that not all races are designed to be the same, let alone to be competitive, gobbos I'm looking at you here. (Pain will probably refute that last bit)
Some races require more skills (both player and coach) to be successful, and that's the problem with your bigger rock analogy. The game hasn't changed you just have a narrowed and flawed view on the mechanics of how the game is designed
| Vol wrote: |
And I like fouling, I think fouling should be a carefully considered tool that a team will use when it has no other options (hail mary passes, throwing a team mate, dodging into three tackle zones to pick up the ball). Instead, it is just another form of bashing, with little real consequences. And bashy teams that had no trouble benching a squad before can now do it in a third less time.
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I find this bit the most humorous out of all you said.
So let me get this straight. Your whole argument seems to be of the tone that fouling is a massively unbalanced aspect in the game, and this unbalance causes unavoidable death and other wonton destruction to any team that is not designed to out foul their opponent. This takes the fun out of the game, because you do not like to build a team like this, and you believe without that specific team design, no one can possibly survive a match against a foul-centric team. (+ Secretly you believe the jerks aren’t doing it to win anyway, only for the destruction it causes. Am I right?)
Yet you say you like to foul.
However only when you nobly believe it is the correct time to use it? Furthermore these times when fouling is acceptable for you to use against your opponent, are equivalent to times in the game when your best choice of action would be to do something incredibly stupid. By which I mean something with a very low chance of success. Let's say 17% as an arbitrary number (a d1 roll of a 6). You probably have you own arbitrary and complicated threshold, so it might be better not use numbers. How’s this?
[fouling:ok for vol to do = ttm:only chance vol not to lose].
You see, here's the thing…
If I find myself in a game where I have no other options other then a hail Mary or a dodge into 3 tz's, it generally means to me, that its late in the game somewhere between t14 to t16 let’s say. My chance of winning is pretty much screwed (I mean c'mon I have to dodge into 3 tz's for christer's sake). So I interpret this as you condoning the t16 foul? Take my advice, a foul is usually more effective when used earlier in the half, it sometimes even helps to prevent those 3tz dodge situations from arising.
It’s also less douchey, but to each their own.
Oh, and as to “bashy” team 3X abilities to bench their opponents, anybody can make up statistic to prove their point. 85% of the world knows that.
| Vol wrote: |
Again, this is a dead conversation. No one that wants to defend fouling will argue the points. Defenders of the practice merely chant "blood". |
I never once appealed to the role-playing aspect of the game, other then the opportunity to name players and teams something that amuses me, I have little interest in that aspect of BB. Every point I stated all dealt in strictly game mechanics, whereas you ignored my points completely while repeating you mantra of “Unbalance!” as if it is a priori fact.
Let's be real here, I in no way think I'm even close to being the best player in this game, but you have been on fumbbl for less then a year and played less then 70 games here. Yet you think you are some sort of expert on how bloodbowl works. You think you know better then coaches who have played 10-20 times the amount of games you have. Many with a better winning percentage as well. I think you credentials are lacking. I think your attitude is pompous and insulting. I think you like to use your attitudes about fouling as a crutch to overcome your lack of ability in playing this game, and frankly I'm calling your bs right here. Learn how to play the game, then come back and explain how fouling is unbalanced. If I thought you might have some clout to back your so-called expertise, then I might be more willing to listen. Until then you're just pissin' in the wind.
Oh and to preempt any claim to the multitude of games played on tabletop, I will file that argument into the same validity folder as your claims in high school, about your girlfriend who lives in Canada that nobody ever met. (For you Canadians, substitute Texas.) |
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Everybody believes in something, and everybody, by virtue of the fact that they believe in something, use that something to support their own existence.
Frank Zappa |
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Alexis
Joined: Jan 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2009 - 13:00 |
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My Texan girlfriend is hot. |
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AlcingRagaholic
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 08, 2009 - 14:51 |
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Pics or it didn't happen.
Z |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Apr 08, 2009 - 15:00 |
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TACTICAL FOULING is AWESOME!!!
That said fouling more than 3 to 5 times in a game probably goes beyond Tactical Fouling and into douchebaggery. Fouling at least 1 time a half is so important that it should almost be a rule that you MUST foul at least 1 time each half. Stretching into 3 to 5 fouls in a game is about where the line gets crossed to me. 5 total fouls is usually OK in my book.
Granted situationally this line can go a little closer to NO Fouls or more than 5 fouls and be within the realm of solid tactics designed to win rather than just trying to kill someone's team. But I'm just talking in general terms here.
"Get The Ref" is BROKEN. It stinks to be on the receiving end of that foul fest.
But... meh. They're only pixels. It's only a game. The result is rare. New teams are free. |
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goat314
Joined: Nov 23, 2008
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Apr 08, 2009 - 16:22 |
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Having been here a short while and played several coaches, newer to the NWL and vets. I tend to think the people I've played would lean more towards the technical fouling than the douchebaggery. More so, I think douchebaggery can be corrected in a league. If a coach gains a reputation for unnecessary fouling and team demolishing, then it is quite likely he will get the same attention from other coaches that wouldn't normally do it. Most teams will recover from 1 game like that, but the coach that instigated will suffer after repeated games. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Apr 08, 2009 - 18:06 |
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This is just to put some actual numbers out there in regard to fouling and a snap shot of reality in the NWL from last season. When discussing fouling there is a lot "what if" and "this could happen" in the discussion. SO lets just look at 3 teams from Season #12. I took my Buccaneers, Celas and his Dorfs and Bampf and his undead. Lets just see how it comes out with these three specific teams with some thoughts from me. I did not look at these teams before I pulled the numbers and just picked those three out of a hat so to speak, could have done the entire premeir but that is overkill.
Buccaneers
Fouls score Kills
4 3-2 0
5 3-0 4 ( 2Kill on foul, apothed the first got him on the second, 1KIA on failed dodge)
8 3-0 1 (GTR on opening kick off and cleared the pitch on 1/6)
4 3-4
2 1-2
2 1-2 (This was game #2 of the season and after I slagged all my niggles and played the rest of the season with 10-11 guys.
3 0-4 (Bampf destroyed my team and set things in motion for the Bucs downfall right off the bat)
My last 5 games I was playing understrength the wholle way. I felt my only chance of winning was to get in some fouls early and often and pray to nuffle that the ref was not watching. when playing with 11 guys your options get very limited once you take some CAS.
Celas and Blunt Force Traumas
Fouls Result
3 1-0
1 1-1 1KIA
3 1-2
7 0-1 Dont know 100% if GTR was involved.
5 1-1
2 1-1 1KIA
1 2-1
Celas was up and down all year and never seemed to be in the running for the Championship. His foul level was very even over the season and that strategy just looking at the black and white stat sheet seemed to backfire on the traumas, if you believe fouling is the be all end all of winning.
Bampf Assault armada
Fouls Result
0 4-0
1 2-0
1 2-0
4 1-1
1 1-2
2 2-0
1 4-0
Well bampfs foul level was 1/2 of the previous two teams. Also keep in mind his last three games were cake walks as the VET was beat to crap at the end. His first game of the season against the Bucs was basically over on 1/3 as he rolled us down to 5 men in the opening moves. SO in the big picture Bampf took advantage of the schedule and how the games laid out. He took control of games early and never really had to worry about losing games, thus no need to foul the opponeet into the ground. The way most coaches would say fouling should be done. Foul when the game is in the balance but once the game is won/lose then you move on to the next game and dont take advantage of a down team.
Here are the big numbers for what they are worth.
Buccaneers Total fouls: 62 36 games
Blunt Force Total Fouls: 60 35 Games
Assault Armada Total Fouls: 43 30 Games
***I just added the fouls of all DPS on these teams, current and past, I did not count the 1"off" fouls from the non DP's***
What does this mean? Well based on these three teams. 2 of them foul around 2 times a game when the GTR is not in play. Its a mixed bag on winning compared to foul level. And the death toll is non existent. Most of the deaths in games is not related to fouling. I did not report the SI-N but they to were very few.
Fouling does not Equal winning in the NWL for these three teams. My experience in the big pond of Ranked play would also support that theory.
Can a coach just foul for the fouls sake and attempt to destroy a team, sure. Does it happen in the NWL, nope.
SO in the end I think a lot of coaches are afraid of the fouler who comes to destroy your team, but in the big pitcture that coach is the boogie man that you have heard of but allmost never meet on the pitch. |
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Meech
Joined: Sep 15, 2005
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Apr 09, 2009 - 17:19 |
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| PainState wrote: | | that coach is the boogie man that you have heard of but allmost never meet on the pitch. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXZcO7J2AnM
I'm your boogieman |
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Putting the FU in fumbbl since 9/2005 |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Apr 09, 2009 - 18:38 |
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So when is the expected date for kick off of season#13. The Bucs are getting anxious about the up coming season and want to know how much longer they have to live. |
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Comish of the:  |
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screech
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2009 - 20:56 |
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| PainState wrote: | | So when is the expected date for kick off of season#13. The Bucs are getting anxious about the up coming season and want to know how much longer they have to live. |
I think the fun,fun,fun champeenship game is holding everything back.
YEAH!
Fun. |
_________________
Everybody believes in something, and everybody, by virtue of the fact that they believe in something, use that something to support their own existence.
Frank Zappa |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Apr 09, 2009 - 23:25 |
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| goat314 wrote: | | Having been here a short while and played several coaches, newer to the NWL and vets. I tend to think the people I've played would lean more towards the technical fouling than the douchebaggery. More so, I think douchebaggery can be corrected in a league. If a coach gains a reputation for unnecessary fouling and team demolishing, then it is quite likely he will get the same attention from other coaches that wouldn't normally do it. Most teams will recover from 1 game like that, but the coach that instigated will suffer after repeated games. |
Agreed.
I've played alot of these guys before too. Never felt like any of them played for anything but the win. Don't remember any fouls that did not fit into valid tactical situation. Don't remember any matches where my team was pounded into dust. And it's not like they couldn't have a few times. |
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