FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: Jul 30, 2011 - 03:15

RANDOM THINGS I WANTED TO SAY

Tod - You admit that uneven teams in a division sucks due to the BYE... and then you make 4 uneven divisions... BOO!!! Uneven #'s of teams do suck.

Gotta try to avoid those freaking BYE weeks... or at least can we make the Bye weeks MEAN something. Can we enter a ghost team that nobody actually plays against that either just forfeits or clicks through to a tie. That way the BYE week will at least be a week off to help heal players and we could all pick up a free MVP or 2. Nothing sucks more that being stuck during your BYE week when you have finished your games early and the rest of the division is SLOW. At least the ghost team would make the waiting worth it.

At least 1 coach we have now is leaving for a season and coming back later based on what they told me. So we can give the numbers game a rest for the moment.

NEW teams... could be folded into the main league easier if we would try to match them against other New teams in their 1st few weeks... or if we gave them a very brief preseason builder of 2 or 3 games (but then if they get wrecked they might rage quit during preseason).

I think 8 team divisions are about perfect.

Miyuso

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jul 30, 2011 - 03:29

With 8 team divisions, you get 7 games. If you have 28, you have 3 divisions, 2 of 10 and 1 of 8. The 2 divisions of 8 have the first 2 rounds forfeitted without points, so while you don't play everyone in your div, you get the same number of games, no byes.

Da_Todfatha

Joined: Jul 06, 2004

Posted: Jul 30, 2011 - 03:44

reading comprehension fael! But I'm glad you are at least attempting to read my posts.

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screech

Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Posted: Jul 30, 2011 - 05:54

Couple of things;
First of all, yeah on 1 team.
Second, will this duo-league - no fringe set up, mean that we'll have guppies and sharks in a same division of vet?
Even with a preseason match or 2 that a rookie team does participate in, (I'm assuming the more active coaches will have the greater advantage in closing the TV gap, to the detriment of the more casual coaches) you might still get a 40-50 TV difference in some or all divisions. Might this be too great a difference?
Is preseason going to be an open round robin thing? Will the underachieving vet teams be able pick the brand new rookie teams? Or will they be in a separate preseason thingee?
Also are we using TV or tournament weight to determine the Median Conference TV?

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Da_Todfatha

Joined: Jul 06, 2004

Posted: Jul 30, 2011 - 06:57

screech wrote:

will this duo-league - no fringe set up, mean that we'll have guppies and sharks in a same division of vet?

Yes, we will have Guppies and Sharks together. We will try and space them out fairly by TV and Team type but I'm sure someone will be unhappy, someone always is.

screech wrote:

Even with a preseason match or 2 that a rookie team does participate in, (I'm assuming the more active coaches will have the greater advantage in closing the TV gap, to the detriment of the more casual coaches)

I don’t know how the more active coach will have an advantage, the preseason matches will be randomly drawn. Explain, cuz I don’t understand.

The randomly drawn preseason matches will be for teams below the Median TV for that division.

screech wrote:

you might still get a 40-50 TV difference in some or all divisions. Might this be too great a difference?

Is there any Imperical data regarding mismatches of 40-50 or higher TV difference? I suppose its possible to find, and Im not too concerned about wins/losses, but more interested in how the teams looked afterwards. Anyway, my gut feeling is it wont be a problem.

screech wrote:

Is preseason going to be an open round robin thing? Will the underachieving vet teams be able pick the brand new rookie teams? Or will they be in a separate preseason thingee?

Preseason will be a. your team is below the median, b. do you want to play a preseason match or not? If so, c. random draw with other teams from your division, 4 days to get the game played. As stated before, we might do a 1-2 game random draw with the rookie teams prior to this.

If an underachieving Vet team or a demoted Premier team is below the median or cuts its roster to rebuild, the will be able to play the preseason matches. The highest team currently is a 7/1/1 human team, they have a TV of 1550 and have 170K in the bank.

screech wrote:

Also are we using TV or tournament weight to determine the Median Conference TV?

I plan to use TV and not Tournament Weight as money in the bank is just a measure of how you can replace bodies, not stars, unless you spend it on stars, I suppose. Deep pockets do not a champion make.

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screech

Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Posted: Jul 30, 2011 - 17:44

I don't have any data I'm just raising questions that might cause problems down the line.

So preseason will not be like before when we have an open RR, but rather it will be a 1 off game? (or 2 one off games if time permits?) Will the new rookie teams be in their own separate one off games?

As I said, I do not have any hard evidence (i could probably search some of the games I've played i guess), but taking a 1550tv human or a 1530tv necro team and match them up against some 100tv rookie team, it's going to be (barring miracle dice) a slaughter. Myabe not player-wise, but I think you need to look at win/losses/spp mining, as well as team survivability, as it'll depend on the team match-ups (high basher vs low baller, high baller vs low tweener, etc).

Also I think you should really consider the tv vs tournament weight difference. Right now my team is at 1300tv, but I have enough to purchase a second wolf, making my tv 1420tv team. If we are only looking at TV, then common sense tell me to wait until the season officially starts before making any changes with my team. That way I either a) can get an extra team-builder game in, or at least b) screw someone else out of the opportunity to a game in by pushing them over the median.

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Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: Jul 30, 2011 - 18:19

MORE RANDOM THINGS I WANTED TO SAY

The underdog NEW teams will be bringing in a chainsaw to everygame... unless they are playing pansy Elves... the older teams will be chopped to itty bitty bits. I think the NEW teams will do just fine against teams like mine that only beat Xyon's Frogs last season.

My point about NEW teams wasn't a reading comprehension issue. I was restating your position on the preseason builders because it was something I thought might be necessary. BUT I also said "NEW teams could be folded into the main league easier if we would try to match them against other New teams in their 1st few weeks..." I'm saying make it NEW team vs NEW team for as many weeks as possible as part of the season with or without any builders before they face the other teams.

Also my larger point that should be addressed in BYE WEEKS. They SUCK... but I have a way to make them suck less during the seasons that we need to have them.

We can make the bye weeks MEAN SOMETHING... instead of just being a dead period for the season where you team sits around in limbo the BYE WEEK could be a week of REST... so that any MNG's can recover during the BYE WEEK. Using my suggestion the BYE WEEK could be something to look forward to.

We could add a single ghost team to every season that has a bye week that would start a game vs whoever is on the BYE for that week... and either the ghost team could forfeit on turn 1 or the 2 teams could click through the game to tie 0-0. This would give the team that is waiting either 1 or 2 MVP's during their BYE... a little bit of free Gold and all of their MNG's back.

I suggest the click through tie method because 1 random MVP and 1 share of Gold will keep this from being as big of an impact on the season. However I would support the ghost team forfeiting too... for one it would be faster than clicking through. The 2nd Random MVP would be no big deal and the extra Gold wouldn't be such a problem.
Gotta try to avoid those freaking BYE weeks... or at least can we make the Bye weeks MEAN something. Can we enter a ghost team that nobody actually plays against that either just forfeits or clicks through to a tie. That way the BYE week will at least be a week off to help heal players and we could all pick up a free MVP or 2. Nothing sucks more that being stuck during your BYE week when you have finished your games early and the rest of the division is SLOW. At least the ghost team would make the waiting worth it.

When I had this idea originally I had forgotten about the winning from Gold. SO I am proposing a fix for that if anyone thinks that might be needed.
If the extra Gold from either method of utilizing the BYE WEEK in this matter is deemed too much Gold to give away free we could CAP the amount of Gold someone could earn during the BYE. We could force a team to dump all or some of their BYE week Gold if we needed to.

In addition... we could TRY to be sure that any NEW teams go through a BYE WEEK early in a season to try to help give them a boost up.

fangbanger

Joined: May 14, 2005

Posted: Jul 30, 2011 - 18:52

Wow Cat you beat some one?
Dang I wish I was you, I couldn't have fought my way out of a wet paperbag last season
I Love the cats idea of a Bye/recovery week( just like the NFL)
ANd I totally agree with the Todd, I don't think that a tv of even a hundred is going to hurt anyone, thats what the unducements are all about, is fixing that handicap deverence
IMO........which doesn't mean a lot, but its my two cents

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mwilli72

Joined: Jun 17, 2007

Posted: Jul 30, 2011 - 19:06

Cat, we thought of that idea (the bye week team that gives money and a chance to heal) a few seasons ago, and ran it past Christer first to make sure it wouldn't start throwing up red flags. He shot it down real fast. It has been implied a few times here and there that we may see more options for league managers down the road sometime, possibly letting us do those types of things during an off week (clear mng's, give money, etc.)

Haxtor

Joined: Aug 16, 2008

Posted: Jul 30, 2011 - 19:45

I am going to throw this out there again. I don't have any empirical data on this subject but my opinion as a coach is that after teams hit 1500-1600 tv I am 100% fine that any inducements I incur against playing a better team very much help to level the playing field, under that I am of the same opinion as screech. A starting team playing a 1300 non av7 older team really has no chance to win unless they are exceptionally lucky.
I think the saw could make the difference at av7 but probably won't against 8 and I think it's a waste of inducement if you are playing av9. It sounds like this is the way we are going though and I am willing to give it a try, I would just heavily prefer to keep new teams against new teams for one season.

Da_Todfatha

Joined: Jul 06, 2004

Posted: Aug 01, 2011 - 00:58

okay, a couple things:
1. Bye weeks might be kept to a minimum by 1 having even number teams in each division or 2 play cross-divisional teams during bye weeks. It's gotta be left flexible as we dont know how many teams we will have each season, the goal will be to have even teams in each division. I know bye weeks suck. okay?

2. New teams would play new teams prior to the below median experienced teams got to play them, but the handicap system as it is right now, is not insignificant, it is almost too good in my opinion. So it will go Draft, new team vs. new team, then all teams below median, then season.

2a. In that regard, I am not concerned about teams that are new additions to the league having a fair chance to win a title. If they earn it, fine, but I'm not inclined to add in additional rules to LRB 6 to somehow make it "More Fair". Build your team and compete. What this allows is for new coaches not to have to sit out a season, and also streamlines Group PMs etc. as well as the draft.

3. As Mwilli states above, the Bye week that is an auto-win is not an option, and I sort of agree. I dont like giving stuff away for free, I understand where you are coming from, but I'm glad Christer said "no way." We can readdress it if he ever allows it in L but for right now, take it off the table.

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PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Aug 01, 2011 - 01:13

Da_Todfatha wrote:

okay, a couple things:
1. Bye weeks might be kept to a minimum by 1 having even number teams in each division or 2 play cross-divisional teams during bye weeks. It's gotta be left flexible as we dont know how many teams we will have each season, the goal will be to have even teams in each division. I know bye weeks suck. okay?

2. New teams would play new teams prior to the below median experienced teams got to play them, but the handicap system as it is right now, is not insignificant, it is almost too good in my opinion. So it will go Draft, new team vs. new team, then all teams below median, then season.

2a. In that regard, I am not concerned about teams that are new additions to the league having a fair chance to win a title. If they earn it, fine, but I'm not inclined to add in additional rules to LRB 6 to somehow make it "More Fair". Build your team and compete. What this allows is for new coaches not to have to sit out a season, and also streamlines Group PMs etc. as well as the draft.

3. As Mwilli states above, the Bye week that is an auto-win is not an option, and I sort of agree. I dont like giving stuff away for free, I understand where you are coming from, but I'm glad Christer said "no way." We can readdress it if he ever allows it in L but for right now, take it off the table.

thanks Todd for that excellent summary of my own thoughts...I would just like to add that IF we have every DIV with even amount of teams then no BYE...IF we have to have a BYE then make sure it falls in the lowest of the divs...no BYE in the premier.

IF you have a BYE, so be it...way to much thought going into getting MNG back and how to balance out the free MVP and cash...the cash is not even...so thus it is not fair.

So I would like to add that the expectation level is that the kickoff is on AUG 8th...so TOdd get moving and off we go.

Cool

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Mr_Foulscumm

Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Posted: Aug 01, 2011 - 01:32

New teams vs New teams? Boo!

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ryanfitz

Joined: Mar 24, 2009

Posted: Aug 01, 2011 - 01:40

i would love to see a small KO cup attached to next season, something like top half of the premiership and the winner from each vet? (8 teams)

th0r

Joined: Mar 05, 2006

Posted: Aug 01, 2011 - 01:54

I'd love to see any team challenge me. Haha. I know I joke I joke, no one can challenge me. Wait for when I can play all teams in the league instead of having to bow out due to people lagging.. NWL will be mine. Take that to the bank.