selfy_74
Joined: Sep 03, 2010
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 17:37 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 17:54 |
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PainState wrote: | Of course there is a way around Perfect Defense and Blitz....when on offense set up like you assume they are going to roll one of those and you would probably be better off, don't you think? |
Naa that's just not true. Maybe first turn of the game you have a point. But there have been many games I have lost or drawn I otherwise would have won solely because of perfect D , blitz or riot on the kick off table.
Games where you are a few players down and receiving then perfect D happens and you are screwed, and so on. |
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The_Great_Gobbo
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 18:08 |
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It killz gobbo an alflin teemz az yer needz ter use free ladz jus ter get a 2d blokk on a strenff 3 guy, an perfekt D stopz yer stone ded. I like Garionz mod of me ideer, all playerz kan move wun square az still az it iz a legal formatchum. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 18:13 |
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Garion wrote: | But there have been many games I have lost or drawn I otherwise would have won solely because of perfect D , blitz or riot on the kick off table.
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On a more lighthearted reply I will say this.
I have lost Blood Bowl matches walking my doggie!!!
(Famous line from the movie heat...yeah, you remember now the reference.)
There are thousands of ways you can get the NUFFLE shaft in this game that will cause you to lose.
but that should never be an excuse for not using sound tactics regardless of the situation even if you are short manned. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 18:46 |
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No doubt, but I'd rather it if the amount of rolls that can completely decide the outcome of a game in 1 roll were kept to a minimum. There is no reason what so ever for riot, pitch invasion, perfect D , blitz and extreme heat to be such huge game breaking events . |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 19:11 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 19:19 |
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koadah wrote: | The reason is that blood bowl is not meant to be taken as seriously as some people take it here.
We still have chess for all that serious finkin. |
Yeah true enough. But GW accidentally created a really strategic dice game. Most people I believe like the strategy side of the game the best, the part in which every turn is a unique puzzle. For 1 roll in a game with such strategy to completely define the outcome is not good design. |
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Dominik
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 19:48 |
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PainState wrote: | Of course there is a way around Perfect Defense and Blitz....when on offense set up like you assume they are going to roll one of those and you would probably be better off, don't you think? |
But then you are disadvantaged on every other kick off event and the drive gets more difficult for you. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 19:54 |
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I love it when I play liz. Have my LoS be ST5 guard, ST4 guard, ST5 guard. Oppo doesn't want to give up his 3 LoS blocks, commits his 5 strongest players to hitting them. BAM! perfect defense. That's half a team stuck with only halfdie block options, and a hard time forming a cage at that. =D
I think strategizing is more fun with uncertainty (BB) than with deterministic outcomes (chess). This includes setting up knowing blitz! perfect defense, or quick snap can happen. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 19:59 |
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Garion wrote: | koadah wrote: | The reason is that blood bowl is not meant to be taken as seriously as some people take it here.
We still have chess for all that serious finkin. |
Yeah true enough. But GW accidentally created a really strategic dice game. Most people I believe like the strategy side of the game the best, the part in which every turn is a unique puzzle. For 1 roll in a game with such strategy to completely define the outcome is not good design. |
I'd say it is excellent.
It doesn't necessarily define the outcome. Or at least not in the way you might think. Blitz & PD often work against people who are too gung ho.
Even better is the rule that says "the commissioner's word is law". Basically, you alter it to suit your league as you can never please all the people all of the time. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 20:02 |
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Also: a bad kick-off result doesn't decide the game. The drive, quite possibly, but then on the next drive/half there is just as much chance your opponent will get equally screwed. That's the beauty of randomness. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 20:12 |
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Not true. It all depends on the timing and other variables.
E.g.1 - your playing halflings, and have won the game 2-1 against a really nasty Norse team, or so it seems. Final turn of the game and riot is rolled. Norse have 11 players halflings have 6. Norse get the ball and score with their 2 remaining turns. Game completely ruined by that 1 roll.
E.g. 2 you are 1 behind to skaven 3 turns left to score with your elves things are looking reasonably good for a draw after you pressured them in to a quick score with excellent play. Then they get blitz on a kick off . You only have 8 vs 8 so it's impossible to defend against it. They get the ball caged up and score to win 2-0. Game ruined by 1 roll.
I like the kick off table in theory and share you feelings to a point sage. But those results are just too game breaking. Bad kick for example in lrb4 was fine. It has an in game effect but not one that breaks the game totally. Get the ref in this edition is fine. I even don't mind throw rock. Because the effect they all have on the game is pretty minimal and you can always cope with them. |
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Last edited by Garion on %b %30, %2014 - %20:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 20:18 |
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That is true, but my point was that it doesn't necessarily define the result, specifically when there is time left. A lot of people during a game will get one of those bad rolls and act as though the game is over.
And, even in the circumstances you describe, that is exactly like snakes on a turn 8 dodge to score. Or any number of other rolls. With the exception that there are things you can do (AC/CL, etc) to influence some of the bad kick-off results. There is nothing you can do to mitigate the snakes.
So, yes, kick-off results can have a big influence on a game, but so can any number of other individual rolls. That is the beauty of the game. Every dice roll is potentially crucial. Making some arbitrary distinction between kick-off rolls having an influence is a bad thing, and any of the other rolls having an influence being less bad is... a bit silly? |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 20:24 |
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No. I already addressed that point in a post above. I would rather limit the number of game changing rolls in the game as much as possible.
If you snake a gfi for example that is different because you could have played the previous turn in a different way meaning no gfi was required. With kick off table there is too often nothing at all that can be done with those events. Again it is race and circumstance dependant but unlike a failed gfi the KoT is completely outside of your control.
It's just down to taste really, and I personally think those results taste bad...... |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2014 - 20:29 |
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Ah, diceless Blood Bowl. Gotcha. Now I get it. You're all just mental. |
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