FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Guardikai

Joined: Jun 23, 2009

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 09:23

Agreeing with Dan, plus an extra shot at breaking armour isn't a bad thing - it'll still hurt vs lower armour teams.

zakatan

Joined: May 17, 2008

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 11:35

Danish_Dan wrote:

I don't think PO will be missed. In my opinion the game is fine without it.

PO had a number of iterations over the years that made it either overpowered or irrelevant. They never made it a reasonable skill though.

I guess PO will be back in some sort of overpowered state in the next rules review in a few years.

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Guardikai

Joined: Jun 23, 2009

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 12:28

Sorry, why isn't a base roll against someone's armour for another chance at causing injury worthwhile? You get to choose whether to use it or not, which adds flexibility (e.g. stunned enemy, maybe no need). It's less helpful against AV 8+ players, but there's still a chance of causing injury - and this does add to the initial chance from your claw/MB hit. Why is the nerf so bad the skill isn't at all viable zakatan? I'd still take it as I can see good use versus armour 7 players and I might use it against key AV8+ enemy players, especially if they weren't stunned or if my player had jump up.

zakatan

Joined: May 17, 2008

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 12:39

AFAIK, the new PO is not even part of the standard skill list, and it is only available in Leagues if the commissioner wants it. So not being able to pick it is a big nerf.

On the other hand, PO was good for it's carefree nature, up to the point there was a running gag on why there even was a dialog asking if you wanted to use it. Now it requires a team RR, so it limits it to one per turn with a giant drawback of consuming a RR, aside from the minor inconvenience of leaving the player prone. This change puts it on par with diving catch on the troll skill picks section.

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Favalessa

Joined: Oct 07, 2011

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 13:07

In a game where you havi to roll a dice to go to the bath was unfair a skill like po without any risk for the player using it...
In my idea po have to roll a d6 and injures himself in case of 1...

Chainsaw

Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 13:15

The problems with PO stemmed from it not being ST dependent (sorry, a goblin with PO should not be as effective as an ogre with it), not being avoidable, and not having enough downside.

Non-stunned players should be able to make an AG roll to avoid the PO.

PO modifiers should be based on ST-difference.

Piling on player should also make an armour roll and be stunned if it passes.

The team RR for PO is total nonsense and a massive cop out by the rule makers.

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zakatan

Joined: May 17, 2008

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 13:36

Chainsaw wrote:

The problems with PO stemmed from it not being ST dependent (sorry, a goblin with PO should not be as effective as an ogre with it), not being avoidable, and not having enough downside.

Non-stunned players should be able to make an AG roll to avoid the PO.

PO modifiers should be based on ST-difference.

Piling on player should also make an armour roll and be stunned if it passes.

The team RR for PO is total nonsense and a massive cop out by the rule makers.

One of the overpowered iterations did exactly that, back in (I believe) LRB3 PO would add ST to the armor roll, so that ST5 MB players did autobreak AV7 armor, with 35/36 chance to bring MB to the injury roll.

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MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 14:19

fidius wrote:

The most discouraging thing about the PO change is not the new rule, although it sucks. It's that it makes it seems like whoever is making the decisions isn't thinking things through.

They made Weeping Dagger rule because the GR models have a dagger, what did you expect? Very Happy

The rule makers don't have the experience of thousands games played like some coaches here on FUMBBL, they are clueless and not interested in really improving the game.

m0gw41

Joined: Jun 12, 2012

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 15:07

We owe it to the enduring memory of CRP to get this thread to 100 pages.

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Chainsaw

Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 15:49

zakatan wrote:

One of the overpowered iterations did exactly that, back in (I believe) LRB3 PO would add ST to the armor roll, so that ST5 MB players did autobreak AV7 armor, with 35/36 chance to bring MB to the injury roll.

I agree it's OP, which is why I said ST-difference, as well as giving a non-stunned (i.e. AV failed) player should get a chance to avoid it.

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zakatan

Joined: May 17, 2008

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 16:04

Chainsaw wrote:

zakatan wrote:

One of the overpowered iterations did exactly that, back in (I believe) LRB3 PO would add ST to the armor roll, so that ST5 MB players did autobreak AV7 armor, with 35/36 chance to bring MB to the injury roll.

I agree it's OP, which is why I said ST-difference, as well as giving a non-stunned (i.e. AV failed) player should get a chance to avoid it.

Looks very weak to me as you propose it, since most of the time is a dodgeable +1, +2 for big guys or against stunties, in exchange for staying prone and 20TV.

I think it's a very hard mechanic to balance because of the drawback, and that's why it's only popular when the damage is ridiculous, but if the damage is just meh, people will just pick some other utility from which take better value for the TV.

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Fanky

Joined: Jul 07, 2016

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 16:05

I suppose that the idea of just one PO action per turn, as fouls, already came out in this giga thread, am i right?

PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 16:39

Fanky wrote:

I suppose that the idea of just one PO action per turn, as fouls, already came out in this giga thread, am i right?

Well it did but not in that form. There is one camp of coaches who think Pile On should be a big guy only skill. So, it is limited to 1 a turn for the vast majority of teams and of course an Ogre team could have 6.

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PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 16:42

Iam in the camp that says the best Pile On nerf is that if you roll a double on the AV or Injury roll you are sent to the KO box. So, in essence the exact same odds of getting sent off to the KO as a foul.

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Jeffro

Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Posted: Feb 01, 2017 - 16:53

PainState wrote:

Iam in the camp that says the best Pile On nerf is that if you roll a double on the AV or Injury roll you are sent to the KO box. So, in essence the exact same odds of getting sent off to the KO as a foul.

I second this. From a gameplay standpoint it makes it only slightly less effective in the sense that you can't just do it repeatedly without consequence, but doesn't reduce the brutality. Fluff wise it makes sense as laying yourself and someone else out with a head-first spear has the chance to knock the tackler senseless.