Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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 Posted:
Jan 19, 2018 - 17:12 |
 
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| JellyBelly wrote: | | ...TV-capped 'Blackbox Minor' (i.e. the 16-team, light-/middle-/heavyweight ones) per quarter [...] and I will personally administer them |
(ignoring the part about majors) are there TV capped (blackbox) minors currently?
If not, adding them sounds good |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Jan 19, 2018 - 17:34 |
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| Arktoris wrote: | | Balle2000 wrote: | | Ranked/League merger into [O]pen is better. Then rename Box to Ranked. |
the Box has a 7 year history of being a failed concept that constantly requires charity and rescuing to sustain it.
How is simply naming it "Ranked" going to solve that?
Furthermore, Ranked has a 15 year history of being the most successful division on fumbbl. What would be the advantage to "fix" something not broken by merging it with league?
Or are you just being a troll? |
Jimmies have been rustled. |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Jan 19, 2018 - 18:33 |
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The more I think about it, the more important TV capped minors sound.
As the BB2016 rules enable monster 2500+ TV teams which are intimidating
So minors would be a stepping stone / introduction / practice to smooth the entry for a new coach's foray into the tournament world
And yea, I don't see a particular reason they should be split. Having them combined R and B makes sense at lower TV |
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bancobat
Joined: Aug 25, 2013
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Jan 19, 2018 - 18:41 |
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I play only box and I love build big team, specially agility team
As one say before, I now have a big woody box team, so yes it’s possible
But it took me some years to have it, with several elves teams which crashed in the process
If you take my team and meet the feebles (both in WO), we have approximately same games, same tv, same victory ratio but very different cas différence and I think it’s only because it’s a B and a R team.
So it’s pretty obvious that it’s easier to build a big agility team in R than in B.
That said, some of us who don’t want to go in R because we think maybe wrongly but that choosing the game is not as fair as not choosing, and in a way if it was not the case a lot of more people would play in box. So when you merge R and B in all majors we actually feel that our efforts are useless. It’s like building a team with 1 apo and building a team with 3 apos (don’t get me stats there it’s an metaphor).
BUT I love tournament on Fumbbl and’ i must admit that Box Majors had lost a little of their fame. And with PO removed you can merge the divisions without frustrating too much the R players who are not used to face big box bashing team a lot.
So I think there is more good than bad in this, more majors for division only players, more players in the tournament. Let’s try and we’ll see.
I would have love that we keep one box only majors, for us geeky blood bowl purist  |
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bancobat
Joined: Aug 25, 2013
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Jan 19, 2018 - 18:55 |
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It’s a bit off topic but I think you take the R and B merge from the wrong angle. You look at the teams of both divisions and say there are not so different so let’s merge them.
But playing in B or R is not a matter of teams, it’s a matter of getting a game.
You merge them but what do you use ? The game finder or the scheduler ?
In both cases you will lose players, that’s why I don’t think that having 2 divisions is good, I think that having 2 ways of getting games is good.
Maybe it’s possible to find a compromise between GF and scheduler but I don’t see it, you choose game or you don’t |
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Motskari
Joined: Dec 03, 2005
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Jan 19, 2018 - 19:01 |
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| bancobat wrote: | If you take my team and meet the feebles (both in WO), we have approximately same games, same tv, same victory ratio but very different cas différence and I think it’s only because it’s a B and a R team.
So it’s pretty obvious that it’s easier to build a big agility team in R than in B. |
You can´t really make that comparison that simple with the Feebles. It is true that they are getting 0,5 less casualties in match than your elves, but the most dramatic diffrence comes from cas made: Feebles 2,7 vs Wanderers of the Forest 1,6 per match.
In that comparison you must also notice that Feebles are carrying number of dirty players that are actively used for booting opposing tackle mb:s. So diffrent playstyles. |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Jan 19, 2018 - 19:05 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | The more I think about it, the more important TV capped minors sound.
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you're in luck. We have that already
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=group&op=view&group=4881
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=group&op=view&group=2294
but all the rest are for those that are big boys.
it's the job of a small team to evolve into a big team. that's why you start from 0spp and work towards 176...not the reverse.
As for intimidation...that's an essential key part of the game.
anyone can be a Monday morning quarterback.
How well do you play under pressure with a 4 minute time limit? Can you focus...or will combat hesitation own you.
That determines how good are you at Bloodbowl.
to quote Billy Joel,
But here you are, with your faith
and your Peter Pan advice
you have no scars, on your face
and you cannot handle
PRESSURE!!! |
_________________
Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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bancobat
Joined: Aug 25, 2013
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Jan 19, 2018 - 19:39 |
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| Motskari wrote: | | bancobat wrote: | If you take my team and meet the feebles (both in WO), we have approximately same games, same tv, same victory ratio but very different cas différence and I think it’s only because it’s a B and a R team.
So it’s pretty obvious that it’s easier to build a big agility team in R than in B. |
You can´t really make that comparison that simple with the Feebles. It is true that they are getting 0,5 less casualties in match than your elves, but the most dramatic diffrence comes from cas made: Feebles 2,7 vs Wanderers of the Forest 1,6 per match.
In that comparison you must also notice that Feebles are carrying number of dirty players that are actively used for booting opposing tackle mb:s. So diffrent playstyles. |
I took just this comparison to illustrate my point, we can debate a lot about the differences between the both teams, he has dirties, i have mighty blow...etc
But i can guarantee you that CAS differences between elves box team and elves ranked teams are huge at high tv (aka big teams) I saw it when the XFL opened to box, when i look at big ranked elves teams etc
Like mrt1212 both coca loca teams, R 80 games -41 cas, B 230 games -389 cas...
We will always find exception but the general fact is that you get more destroyed in box when you want to build big agility team (like tournament ones). It’s just easier in R, it’s not a drama but it’s just like that.
But maybe at the end the teams are both goods, and it will not be such a problem in tournmanents.
Just the path is different and for some coaches it feels less fair. |
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Motskari
Joined: Dec 03, 2005
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Jan 19, 2018 - 20:55 |
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Sorry for continuing the offtopic.
| bancobat wrote: | | I took just this comparison to illustrate my point, we can debate a lot about the differences between the both teams, he has dirties, i have mighty blow...etc |
But I´m saying your illustration doesn´t work with the Feebles. You kinda dragged my team here to prove a point that ranked elves have it easy and they live forever. That ranked elves pick only easy opponents and non bashy teams. Sure, you could only look at the cas numbers here, but the Feebles play much more bashy than your elves. We have mighty blow also. Hope to see you in woodie XFL so I can prove my point.
| bancobat wrote: | But maybe at the end the teams are both goods, and it will not be such a problem in tournmanents.
Just the path is different and for some coaches it feels less fair. |
Now you have mega elves yourself. Cheers for that. Sad to hear it feels unfair that other people have also. But in the end, those elf teams that aren´t used to play all kinds of opponents don´t win majors.
This whole thread is getting some foul banjo. Naming and my way of gaming is better than yours attitude. Gaming should be fun. We are many here in Fumbbl and there are diffrent ways to enjoy your BB fix.
edit: and in my experiences from Fumbbl admin decisions, they usually stand and these threads won´t really chance anything but spread bad attitude. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Jan 19, 2018 - 21:16 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | Catalyst lololol - "I think we should talk about X so therefore I am not off topic even though the topic is Y"
I'm pretty sure no one is listening to you now |
Close.
We should be talking about Y because the topic of X has already been decided. So no point to talk about X. We ought to move on to the logical conclusion... which is Y.
Do try to keep up. I was HERE before Box got out of testing. You guys are years behind already. And by the time you get HERE it is going to be way too late. |
Last edited by Catalyst32 on Jan 19, 2018; edited 1 time in total |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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| Posted:
Jan 19, 2018 - 21:30 |
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| bancobat wrote: | It’s a bit off topic but I think you take the R and B merge from the wrong angle. You look at the teams of both divisions and say there are not so different so let’s merge them.
But playing in B or R is not a matter of teams, it’s a matter of getting a game.
You merge them but what do you use ? The game finder or the scheduler ?
In both cases you will lose players, that’s why I don’t think that having 2 divisions is good, I think that having 2 ways of getting games is good.
Maybe it’s possible to find a compromise between GF and scheduler but I don’t see it, you choose game or you don’t |
This guy gets it.
It is about more games and more ways to get those games.
More coaches in 1 division
Each coach still choosing HOW their teams will get games.
More diversity in the Box especially at high TV.
More coaches looking forward to the same tournaments.
Nobody forced to join the scheduler.
Nobody forced to join the game finder.
Less waiting around NOT PLAYING.
It is the solution we should have seen from the beginning... of at least by now. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jan 19, 2018 - 22:51 |
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I think a few of you are misreading what Bancobat said. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Jan 19, 2018 - 23:21 |
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| koadah wrote: | I can see why you'd want Box only Majors, but not Minors. Even the most casual coaches could rustle up 1250, 1500 and 1750 teams. Minors may as well all be mixed IMO.
There has been a lot of squabbling about Ranked vs Box. who are the biggest pickers, pimpers & farmers?
I think it misses the real point. That is that a lot of people just don't want to play vs the super massive teams. |
Your final point there is exactly the reason why I think capped TV/TW minors are important. There is a different challenge in playing a tourney where the teams aren't all pimped up to the hilt, and some people enjoy that. It's about variety, and providing something for everyone, including newer players and those that have less time to play. If even the minors are uncapped, then you will just end up seeing the same high-TV teams getting thrown in there and milking them every time. An uncapped TW minor isn't really a 'minor', imo - it's more like a 'mini-major'.
Why does Box need to have its own capped minors? For all the reasons I've already given regarding competitive purity. Even for 1250 TW, it's too easy in Ranked to farm a 'boutique' team that is perfectly sculpted for that particular tourney, by choosing easy games that minimise the risk of injuries. |
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Last edited by JellyBelly on Jan 19, 2018; edited 1 time in total |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Jan 19, 2018 - 23:27 |
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| Motskari wrote: | | In that comparison you must also notice that Feebles are carrying number of dirty players that are actively used for booting opposing tackle mb:s. So diffrent playstyles. |
I'm not going to comment about the Feebles here, but it must be quite a interesting 'playstyle' that allows a High Elf team to end up with a +54 cas difference and over a million in their treasury after 139 games ..  |
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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Jan 19, 2018 - 23:32 |
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@Catalyst32: Everyone seems to keep talking about how we can get more games on the site and make it easier to get games. But, is the quality of the games not important? Imo, the quality of the games is driven by the nature of the playing environment, which is part of the reason it matters to me.
Quality vs quantity .. personally, I've found that the quality of the games tends to be better, on average, in the Box, without all the picking, ducking, diving .. |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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