koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Jun 17, 2025 - 17:19 |
 
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| Drrek wrote: |
You said the more people you want in, the more you have to compromise, and if you are ok with a smaller league of 6, 8 or 10 people you have to compromise less.
The problem is, in NA timezones at least, leagues of 6, 8 or 10 are still very hard to get going. I'm not talking about starting a big league here, I'm talking about a little one, and its already hard enough to get those started. And when you do, you can't be picky about who you get in, because most people tend to be pretty full up on leagues and there aren't that many of us.
So it is very hard to get a league started, even a small one, and get exactly what you want in the ruleset, especially when the default is official rules. |
Is this an argument?
I ask because I don't think that either of us has said anything that actually contradicts the other yet. 
OK. It's not easy. The more specialised your requirements the harder it will be to find opponents. There are no leagues even close to doing what you would enjoy?
You live in a place populated by only yourself and a few penguins?
I haven't actually said that it would be easy. So I don't think that it is actually an argumennt yet.
Some won't play in the [L]eague division e.g. because it takes too long to get a game.
Well, if more people played, maybe it wouldn't take so long. 
But hey, if everyone is being ultra specialised it probably still will.
So, how much do you have to compromise in order to get by? Isn't that what life is all about?
If it is important enough you could try moving to somewhere other than Penguin Island.
You know. Before it gets really crazy. |
_________________
NO Seasons! 2016 Progression, KO Tournaments, --- All Star Bowl - Always recruiting!
Open/Gamefinder play |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2025 - 17:20 |
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It seems Wildly Inaccurate is changing to "from the receiver" in Sept... Not that that's enough to make passing good. But it least its a small step... |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2025 - 17:31 |
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About the easy-to-build-freaks: either or both Season and Re-Draft budget could be decreased.
We are using a Season's length and a Re-Draft budget that, as far as I know, are higher than suggested by the rulebook.
That would be a viable change, because allowed by official rules.
We could use a 10-game Season with 1300 budget.
If we have to keep the 15-game Season for the BBT, at least the budget could be set at 1300. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2025 - 17:49 |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Jun 17, 2025 - 18:28 |
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September? in a FAQ? they're normally May / Nov |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2025 - 18:30 |
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| koadah wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | It seems Wildly Inaccurate is changing to "from the receiver" in Sept... Not that that's enough to make passing good. But it least its a small step... |
Too small to give me any real hope. |
Same 🤣 |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2025 - 18:33 |
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| koadah wrote: | | Drrek wrote: |
You said the more people you want in, the more you have to compromise, and if you are ok with a smaller league of 6, 8 or 10 people you have to compromise less.
The problem is, in NA timezones at least, leagues of 6, 8 or 10 are still very hard to get going. I'm not talking about starting a big league here, I'm talking about a little one, and its already hard enough to get those started. And when you do, you can't be picky about who you get in, because most people tend to be pretty full up on leagues and there aren't that many of us.
So it is very hard to get a league started, even a small one, and get exactly what you want in the ruleset, especially when the default is official rules. |
Is this an argument?
I ask because I don't think that either of us has said anything that actually contradicts the other yet.
OK. It's not easy. The more specialised your requirements the harder it will be to find opponents. There are no leagues even close to doing what you would enjoy?
You live in a place populated by only yourself and a few penguins?
I haven't actually said that it would be easy. So I don't think that it is actually an argumennt yet.
Some won't play in the [L]eague division e.g. because it takes too long to get a game.
Well, if more people played, maybe it wouldn't take so long.
But hey, if everyone is being ultra specialised it probably still will.
So, how much do you have to compromise in order to get by? Isn't that what life is all about?
If it is important enough you could try moving to somewhere other than Penguin Island.
You know. Before it gets really crazy. |
My point is the "Just play leagues lol" argument is a frustratingly irrelevant argument in discussing overall complaints with the game, because, like it or not, the official rules are by far the easiest way to organize playing this game.
Basically my point is customization of leagues is irrelevant to this discussion. |
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Jayward
Joined: Dec 22, 2020
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2025 - 20:32 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | | September? in a FAQ? they're normally May / Nov |
There was a rumour going around that the new edition is September this year, amongst other things. But the source on the podcast I heard it from was 'An anonymous poster on a board' so I'm happy to not read anything into it |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2025 - 20:34 |
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| Drrek wrote: | ...
My point is the "Just play leagues lol" argument is a frustratingly irrelevant argument in discussing overall complaints with the game, because, like it or not, the official rules are by far the easiest way to organize playing this game.
Basically my point is customization of leagues is irrelevant to this discussion. |
When I first started, the two main rules that I remember were:
1. Have fun.
2. The Commissioner's word is law.
On TT, I play what I want.
On Fumbbl, I play what the system and userbase enables me to play.
For me, the current ruleset is not what I want to be doing.
I have mostly given up arguing individual points because it appears to be going further and further away from what I want to do so it's pretty hopeless.
A lot of people have quit. Maybe in terms of games played I'm mostly quit. Certainly compared to the past.
But I still run tournaments and antagonise people on the forums.
Ya gotta take your fun where you can find it. 
Edit: Seriously, what is it that you want to do that no one is doing?
If no one is doing it, maybe that should tell you something. |
_________________
NO Seasons! 2016 Progression, KO Tournaments, --- All Star Bowl - Always recruiting!
Open/Gamefinder play |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2025 - 21:33 |
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| koadah wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: |
The NFL style league I play in has a decent end around on some of this with a draft from the college league so you don't have to slog to rote best-in-shows, but there's very little good in this edition for the type of experience I want to have in player development. |
Res, draft leagues, just using the old progression system.
Whatever it takes to make this version usable for you. |
On my end, I basically have stopped playing the matchmaking for reasons related to time/focus/interest and how my computer is now set up at home - it's not conducive to plopping down for 90 minutes at a time at all. Nothing GW can do about any of that buuuuuuut...
Whatever the promise of the new system, I just haven't seen it materialize in what anyone is building in players or teams for the long haul, not even factoring in seasonal attrition.
But factoring in seasonal attrition for competitive and blackbox while taking the team building experience from league, its just...foreboding? to know that even if you scrimp and save your SPP, the costs of a truly amazing player are ridiculous especially carrying them over season to season.
And the most aggravating thing is that the every single table top tourney I've been to under the new ruleset doesn't even work the TV costs out from secondaries, instead doing things like 6 Primaries, 2 Secondaries with a 1200 TV Budget so that discrepancies that might otherwise happen from selecting a secondary at 40k, don't really translate to team fitness against other teams or inducement loads, where as this absolutely factors in a free floating high TV league.
BB is still BB and I still love playing it, but there are artifacts of the current system not being really suitable to how a lot of us seek to play on Fumbbl - they're totally fine for TT though. Well not totally fine if we look at things like passing in every regard, but everyone else has mentioned that faux pas.
I want to like the skilling system more and was eager to figure it out over time, but the bottom line is that I think my teams are less interesting and less powerful than they used to be. And I don't look forward to building a team like I used to in the spots where I was given the ability to really build it.
Aside on random vs. chosen skills:
I have given it a shot and while there is some intriguing potential there, the costs are too out of wack to really justify secondaries any which way on certain players, the time to skill just doesn't work for certain players (like, you're never getting you random Juggernaut linerat their 2nd or 3rd skill, they just don't do that statistically speaking), and the actual utility of a random skill is super dubious given all the possibilities when matched to their inherent player attributes and skill access.
Under the old system, a block guard lino worked out as 16 SPP total, two 1/6 chances to roll guard (so ~30% you'll get a doubles), a total cost of 50k added to player.
Under the new system, a block guard lino works out to 14 SPP, guard is guaranteed, and a total cost of 60k added to the player. HOWEVER...because MVPs are 3 SPP, it can take one additional MVP to 'passively' clear 14 SPP with 2/3 SPP coming from a CAS or TD. Old System, you needed 3. And that's where your non hitters and non scorers are getting skilled up early on, the MVPs.
You can see how these marginal changes are kind of window dressing for worse. |
Last edited by mrt1212 on Jun 17, 2025; edited 3 times in total |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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Jun 17, 2025 - 22:12 |
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[quote="koadah"]| Drrek wrote: | ...
Edit: Seriously, what is it that you want to do that no one is doing?
If no one is doing it, maybe that should tell you something. |
There's nothing specifically that I want to do that no one is doing (well except revert to old system of SPP apparently. It seems all the NA leagues still use the current system).
I'm in multiple leagues, and they do many things I like to do. NCBB is my favorite, since it allows for the type of legacy building for teams that I feel is sorely lacking in this edition.
But like, it feels like you've missed the point of this thread? This thread is explicitly to complain about things that aren't liked about this edition. Saying "you can do it different in leagues" is meaningless in that context.
I wasn't complaining about how leagues I'm in are run. Leagues are only one part of how blood bowl is played, and just because of basic logistics, the smaller part of how I'm able to play blood bowl on this site. Why wouldn't I want blood bowl in general to adopt better rules? Its clear I'm not the only one who has issues with this ruleset.
The "commissioner's word is law" is the same problematic argument when people bring up dissatisfaction with rules in other tabletop games like D&D. Defaults matter, because they are what people will use, even if most people would like a different option better. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2025 - 23:10 |
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| Drrek wrote: |
But like, it feels like you've missed the point of this thread? This thread is explicitly to complain about things that aren't liked about this edition. Saying "you can do it different in leagues" is meaningless in that context. |
Nope. I haven't missed the point of the thread. You jumped on my response to one post.
I've been moaning about this edition since it was first leaked.
Having a good moan is good for the soul but GW are more about selling minis than creating great rules.
They have a vested interest in keeping people at low TV and buying new teams.
If you play the same old, battered, 2000TV, orc team for 10 years, you're stealing the food out of their children's mouths.
So, feel free to carry on moaning instead of derailing the thread by responding to posts that you think are off topic. 
But really, this has all been covered many times before so it is kinda hard to take seriously. I expect to hate the next set of rules probably as much as I hate these. If not more.
Back when blood bowl was my No 1. favourite pass time I did indeed moan bitterly about every rule change that I didn't like.
It can still be fun and I pointed out how (for a person like ne).
But for me, I don't expect the Official Rules to be really great again for a very long time. If ever. |
_________________
NO Seasons! 2016 Progression, KO Tournaments, --- All Star Bowl - Always recruiting!
Open/Gamefinder play |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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| Posted:
Jun 18, 2025 - 00:19 |
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Where did I say the rules would ever be great? They won't.
In a thread about what one finds wrong with the game, there isn't really a benefit for saying "well it won't be better so work with what you got." Because I know that. Everyone here hopefully knows that. I may be an idiot but I have basic pattern recognition to know that GW doesn't know what they are doing with blood bowl. The base they've built on is fun enough that I enjoy (usually) playing it anyway.
You are responding quite a lot for a person who doesn't see the point of the thread. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jun 18, 2025 - 00:30 |
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| Drrek wrote: | Where did I say the rules would ever be great? They won't.
In a thread about what one finds wrong with the game, there isn't really a benefit for saying "well it won't be better so work with what you got." Because I know that. Everyone here hopefully knows that. I may be an idiot but I have basic pattern recognition to know that GW doesn't know what they are doing with blood bowl. The base they've built on is fun enough that I enjoy (usually) playing it anyway.
You are responding quite a lot for a person who doesn't see the point of the thread. |
I think after 5ish years of this, we should be doing a full inventory of what isn't good about the ruleset, even if GW is a mini business that accidentally makes games for them. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 18, 2025 - 00:36 |
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| Drrek wrote: | Where did I say the rules would ever be great? They won't.
In a thread about what one finds wrong with the game, there isn't really a benefit for saying "well it won't be better so work with what you got." Because I know that. Everyone here hopefully knows that. I may be an idiot but I have basic pattern recognition to know that GW doesn't know what they are doing with blood bowl. The base they've built on is fun enough that I enjoy (usually) playing it anyway.
You are responding quite a lot for a person who doesn't see the point of the thread. |
I'm responding to you as you seemed to make it an argument about what we're allowed to say and not allowed to say. That is a bit more interesting.
Also that that you couldn't just create a league.
I did respond here
| koadah wrote: |
| mrt1212 wrote: |
The NFL style league I play in has a decent end around on some of this with a draft from the college league so you don't have to slog to rote best-in-shows, but there's very little good in this edition for the type of experience I want to have in player development. |
Res, draft leagues, just using the old progression system.
Whatever it takes to make this version usable for you. |
If you are not able to read between the lines, I'm not keen on the progression system or seasons.
Is that clear enough for you?
But I've probably said that 1000 times already. |
_________________
NO Seasons! 2016 Progression, KO Tournaments, --- All Star Bowl - Always recruiting!
Open/Gamefinder play |
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