MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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 Posted:
Aug 13, 2025 - 21:23 |
 
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In many games you can play perfectly, but be outbashed and then the cage camps near the End Zone.
It's not such tightly correlated. Removals play a big role. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Aug 13, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Aug 13, 2025 - 21:42 |
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Of course. These things do happen sometimes...
But most of the time it doesn't... most of the time if ypur opponent scores in turn 8 it's your fault. Reducing a ball carriers S by 1 and removing their cumulative TZ makes ypur defensive capabilities considerably worse and hurts stunty teams the most.
You don't need both measures. The removal of the cumulative tz would be more than enough... or the reduction of St would be enough. Either of them make elves incredibly strong... |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2025 - 21:56 |
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The ball carrier's ST reduction due to carrying the ball is cancelled by Sure Hands, Extra Arms, Monstrous Mouth, Safe Pair of Arms.
Most ball carriers I face have Sure Hands, either by default or as acquired skill.
It would make a difference only if the ball were carried by a not specialist player lacking one of the skills above.
In many, if not most games, it would not make a difference.
About the ball carrier's Tackle Zone: in a cage a ball carrier has generally 1-2 Guards protecting them.
So, dodging into the cage would be easier, but then it would still be a 2d uphill Blitz, and with 1 rr per turn it would be hard to steal, pick up and punt/run away. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2025 - 22:30 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | The ball carrier's ST reduction due to carrying the ball is cancelled by Sure Hands, Extra Arms, Monstrous Mouth, Safe Pair of Arms.
Most ball carriers I face have Sure Hands, either by default or as acquired skill.
It would make a difference only if the ball were carried by a not specialist player lacking one of the skills above.
In many, if not most games, it would not make a difference.
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Then why bother with the convoluted rule? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 13, 2025 - 22:34 |
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| Garion wrote: |
Then why bother with the convoluted rule? |
To deal with the situations where the ball is carried by a ST 4+ player, for example, a Blodge Jaguar Blocker, a Golem, a Bull Centaur, an Ulfwerener, a Big Un, a Blodge Vampire.
It's hard to sack these players if inside a cage/behind a screen. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Aug 14, 2025 - 08:31 |
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Maybe game would be better if there was no cas and every team had mv13 player to gloriously oneturn back against boring stall ?
With average dice, it would be a tie.
Luv.
Merreh |
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Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Aug 14, 2025 - 12:18 |
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sebco
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
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Aug 14, 2025 - 15:00 |
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Some thoughts about rules ideas you discussed, @Garion and @MattDakka :
| MattDakka wrote: | 38- Officious Ref: 1: player is temporarily ejected and sent to Reserves for the rest of the drive (Argue the Call, Bribery and Corruption and Bribe can be used); 2+: player is Stunned.
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| Garion wrote: | 38r – Yeah this needs to be fixed
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In my opinion, Officious ref is the last kick-off event that is a real problem. I would delete it. That would free up result 11.
It’s Nuffle number, so let’s use it to replace Prayers to Nuffle table by a single new result on kick-off event table (that's only an example, you got the idea):
"11-Prayer of Nuffle : A player from each team gains the same random skill until the end of this drive. Roll a D6. On a 1, it's an agility skill. On a 2, it's a general skill. On a 3, it's a mutation. On a 4, it's a passing skill. On a 5, it's a strength skill. On a 6, either both coaches agree on skill category, or reroll a D6. Once skill category is designated, randomly roll skill as explained on page 71. Coaches can then choose which player of their team (without Loner) benefits from it."
All entries from Prayers to Nuffle table disappear. About me, this is not a big loss. « Prayer of Nuffle » is a good idea in terms of fluff but a 2nd table, with 16 entries, is too much. In these 16 entries, only trapdoor could be kept. It can become a new cheap inducement, for example.
| MattDakka wrote: | 29- Pass: reduces Wildly Inaccurate to D3 scatter from target square/thrower's square.
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| Garion wrote: | 29r- yeah not a bad idea. Generally speaking though I think Wildly inaccurate should work as follows: Place the D3 template on the target square, and face it towards the Thrower. Roll D3 for scatter, and D6 for distance of scatter.
This would give you a far better and less ridiculous version for Wildly inaccurate.
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I agree with your Wildly inaccurate rule proposal for passing. But I think it has to be modified for throwing team-mate.
| MattDakka wrote: | 13- Accurate and Cannoneer merged into a single skill: Accurate.
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| Garion wrote: | 13r – Yeah this is fine… Again I think Passing needs a bigger re-work but yes this is one solution
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I also think Passing skills need a bigger rework. Half of them should be buffed.
| MattDakka wrote: | 11 - Positional Journeymen: if a positional player is MNG they are replaced by a Loner (4+) Rookie positional of the same type in the post-match phase (i.e. when Journeymen are added to the roster and before putting the team on Ready status). They can't be healed by the Apothecary.
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| Garion wrote: | 11r – I understand where you are coming from… But no I don’t like this. I think there could be better changes around squad management, but the problem with this change is it reduces the impact of injuries on a team too much. I think it’s a fine rule for a perpetual environment where you play all your games, but in League it would hurt the impact that injuries have in a league season.
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In my opinion, rulebook mercenaries are too expensive. +30k and Loner is too much. About me, +10k and Loner would be enough. That would be a simple mean to replace your positional players missing games due to injuries.
| MattDakka wrote: | 5- Pitch dimensions: 28 x 15 squares instead of 26 x 15. End Zone dimensions: 15 x 1 squares. Touchback if the ball lands on End Zone at Kick-Off.
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| Garion wrote: | 5r, - No, this is a terrible idea. The dimensions of the pitch are specifically designed to work around the average players Ma being 6 and their potential to do 2 GFI/Rushes, The synergy between Ma6 and half a pitch is perfect currently. I’m guessing this is to make OTT a little harder? There are other ways to make that harder if you really want to…
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Since the rumor of this rule change for the next edition was mentioned in Bonehead podcast, I've already thought about it. First of all, I think it would be a shame for all coaches who have pitch from previous editions and would have to replace them. From a gameplay perspective, I'm having trouble measuring the overall impact on the game. It would complicate offence in 2 or even 3 turns for many teams.
The big positive point is that it would make oneturns more difficult. In my opinion, oneturns have too much impact on the game since BB 2020 and multi-rerolls per turn. Is there a better solution to limit these oneturns? Would changing gutter runners to 8 movement (and Stab in return?) be enough? |
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I like cheese but don't call me skaven ! |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 14, 2025 - 15:47 |
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| sebco wrote: |
In my opinion, Officious ref is the last kick-off event that is a real problem. I would delete it. That would free up result 11.
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For me Officious Ref could be deleted and replaced with Prayers to Nuffle. I didn't want to change the Kick-Off events, just to nerf them, but Officious Ref could be deleted. To be honest, for me tends to be a problem only when I play a starting team, because after some games generally I have more Dedicated Fans than my opponents'. That said, it's an event that could be removed/replaced.
Maybe it could be named "Nuffle's Boon", "Nuffle's Gift" or "Nuffle's Blessing" because that makes more sense in my opinion than Prayers. It would remind the Gifts of Chaos in WHFB to me that way (4th edition card deck which bosted Chaos characters).
| sebco wrote: |
I agree with your Wildly inaccurate rule proposal for passing. But I think it has to be modified for throwing team-mate. |
For example, Wildly Inaccurate could never scatter the thrown player from the Big Guy throwing them, you can't deflect a player as easily as a ball. Maybe another Big Guy could, though.
| sebco wrote: |
I also think Passing skills need a bigger rework. Half of them should be buffed. |
For sure Passing skills could use some love. I merged Accurate and Cannoner to build more quickly a good Thrower.
| sebco wrote: | | In my opinion, rulebook mercenaries are too expensive. +30k and Loner is too much. About me, +10k and Loner would be enough. That would be a simple mean to replace your positional players missing games due to injuries. |
I think that the Mercenaries are too expensive too, I think that +10k without any skill allowed (so, a Rookie positional, no extra skills allowed to buy) could be ok.
That though doesn't solve the problem of expensive positionals MNG with not enough gold in the Treasury to buy Mercenaries. Imagine, for example, a Tomb Kings' team
with 2 MNG Guardians and 90k in the Treasury: even by hiring a Mercenary +10k could not allow to replace any Guardian. While a Lineman MNG is not a big deal, when certain teams lack 2 or more key positionals they will struggle in the next match. With my idea a full roster would be always assured (although the positionals would be Loner Rookies).
| sebco wrote: |
Would changing gutter runners to 8 movement (and Stab in return?) be enough? |
About the bigger pitch: well, if we want to change things, we have to change things. 1TTD and TTM currently are too easy. Even with 1 rr per turn again, Skaven and UW could still 1TTD quite easily. My solution is the bigger pitch, harder rushes, 1 rr per turn. I would not make Gutter Runners MA 8. About the trickier offences: well, teams could invest more on On the Ball and Passing skills (which should be buffed, hence the Accurate merged with Cannoner: with just 1 skill slot throwing would be improved). I think the game would be more dynamic than now. Dwarf Runner and Orc Thrower could have On The Ball, if the teams struggled too much. In the end my bigger pitch adds just 1 square to score, I think that scoring should still be possible even for slow teams.
Moreover, in my ruleset there is no Re-Draft. Having 1-2 Dwarf Blitzers or Runners or Orc Blitzers with MA 6 or 7 (to make up for the longer pitch) would be viable.
Anyway, if the bigger pitch is a problem, on a normal pitch 1 rr per turn and harder rushes would make 1TTD and TTM less likely (the little change to Kick and to High Kick event are other subtle nerfs). |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 14, 2025 - 17:01 |
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remove multi rrs a turn and introduce incremental increase in GFI difficulty and OTT is MUCH more unlikely. that's all that is needed. an extra square per half messes up the game in too many other ways.
The biggest issue I see in game is people don't know how to defend properly against OTT. The anti OTT set ups I see are poor 98% of the games I watch.
While we are fixing the kick off table. Time Out should also be removed, giving an extra turn at the end of the game completely breaks the game sometimes. Sometimes you have a hard fought win or draw and set up a nice anti OTT set up,, but your opponent gets an extra turn and it invalidates everything. Its personally the kick off result i hate the most. |
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