FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: Sep 15, 2005

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 19:50

I have a daughter who has "blown out" a diaper when I was playing BB. I told my opponent and he was ok with me changing her. If this had happened now I would have no issue losing the rest of my turn. So many of you have trumpeted "RL is more important than the game." Well it is for me too. It is just a game. So if I lose 1-11 actions to take care of my daughter, I am ok with that.

Do I like the rule? Nope, I think it kind of boxes people in and takes away some flexibility. It won't prevent me from playing ranked though.

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Putting the FU in fumbbl since 9/2005

Skolopender

Joined: Jun 17, 2006

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 19:54

Reventlov wrote:

Thank you Christer...You have given back my life.
As a father of 2 (4 and 2 years) I can never assure that I can play the game properly now.
Even ONE game lost due to IRL actions is ONE too many in my book.

Thank you Christer. I now can not play the game I love....or maybe I should try that strange U division.
But without CR it isn't the same. Well well, end of ranked for me.

Again, thanks Christer, your real first blunder rules wise and houndreds of people are upset.....

Well well

Even though I agree on the rule being bad... This isn't fair...

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Lobbying for a Troll team. If Bonehead Ogres can have one, why not one for Trolls? Power to the Trolls!

Meech

Joined: Sep 15, 2005

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 19:58

Oh, and the way some of you make it sound, people charge your house on a nightly basis with soiled, hungry children asking you to answer their phones and interview for a job.

_________________
Putting the FU in fumbbl since 9/2005

SnakeSanders

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 19:58

Meech wrote:

I have a daughter who has "blown out" a diaper when I was playing BB. I told my opponent and he was ok with me changing her. If this had happened now I would have no issue losing the rest of my turn. So many of you have trumpeted "RL is more important than the game." Well it is for me too. It is just a game. So if I lose 1-11 actions to take care of my daughter, I am ok with that.

Do I like the rule? Nope, I think it kind of boxes people in and takes away some flexibility. It won't prevent me from playing ranked though.

Well said!

Sziro

Joined: May 07, 2005

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 20:00

(First off, I have read Christer' s post, but not the whole thread.)
There are real life issues, as someone pointed out. Some of the kind, that can or cannot be ignored. I have never encountered anyone, hwo would take a too long interrupt, or play too slow for me to feel unconfortable, neither did I to others. The 4 minute rule is written, but does that gives us reason to follow, no matter what? Tabletop and online are two very different things.
It can be a good rule, i don t think you need 4 minutes for a turn, but it is the principle. I can t guarentee, that i ll be sitting in front of my computer all the time in EVERY GAME. Maybe 9 out of 10, but not every. I ll not turn down a phone call because i play bb online, sorry. And even if i can sit here all the time, i like to check my mail, listen to music, chat, code, eat, have sex, etc. while i play. How should i talk to my opp, if i need to be consantly aware of the turn limit?

(Probably) this rule kills ingame chat. It makes you play automatic, not creative. I prefer the quality not the quantity of games i play. And on the rule, some out there do need 4 or more minutes. The newcommers, or the logically challanged, call what you like. Is it worth to be harder on them? If you are a good coach, do not challange newcomers, and then you will not be frustrated by slow play.
Even if the rule is reasonable, and needed, so be it, we will get used to it. But there should be a break option (like 1/game) for real life issues.
I hope the rule will not be enforced on the long run.

Kk

Skolopender

Joined: Jun 17, 2006

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 20:01

Meech wrote:

I have a daughter who has "blown out" a diaper when I was playing BB. I told my opponent and he was ok with me changing her. If this had happened now I would have no issue losing the rest of my turn. So many of you have trumpeted "RL is more important than the game." Well it is for me too. It is just a game. So if I lose 1-11 actions to take care of my daughter, I am ok with that.

Do I like the rule? Nope, I think it kind of boxes people in and takes away some flexibility. It won't prevent me from playing ranked though.

If I can't ensure the game to run so both can enjoy it... I don't feel like playing. So Unranked and stunty for me as it is now...

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Lobbying for a Troll team. If Bonehead Ogres can have one, why not one for Trolls? Power to the Trolls!

def909

Joined: Oct 25, 2005

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 20:06

Kk773 wrote:

...And even if i can sit here all the time, i like to check my mail, listen to music, chat, code, eat, have sex, etc. while i play. How should i talk to my opp, if i need to be consantly aware of the turn limit? Kk

Does your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband enforce the 4 minute rule during sex too? Smile

I´ve been doing lots of things while playing BB, but never had the time for sex

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Don´t ask Nuffle for better dice, ask him to make you a better coach.

Sziro

Joined: May 07, 2005

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 20:06

Quote:

I have a daughter who has "blown out" a diaper when I was playing BB. I told my opponent and he was ok with me changing her. If this had happened now I would have no issue losing the rest of my turn. So many of you have trumpeted "RL is more important than the game." Well it is for me too. It is just a game. So if I lose 1-11 actions to take care of my daughter, I am ok with that.

Do I like the rule? Nope, I think it kind of boxes people in and takes away some flexibility. It won't prevent me from playing ranked though.

The thing i talked abaut.
And on an other hand imagine the following: (only theory. Not every game, but like 1 form a hundred.)

In game:
- Dude, big problem, i need to feed my hungry children.
- Then what happens now?
- ...

If someonoe supports the new rule, please finish the situation, solve the problem.

Kk

Passionis6

Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 20:08

Ive now played two games with the new turn limit and I had time both chatting and visit the bathroom during tha matches without surrendering a single turn.

Craftnburn

Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 20:08

Kk773 wrote:

i like to check my mail, listen to music, chat, code, eat, have sex

Your girl said that 4 min should be plenty for the last one....

(just kidding.. couldn't resist!)

Qaz

Joined: Apr 28, 2004

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 20:11

Raist1222 wrote:

And in regards to Lag, i have dial-up internet and have yet to lag what so ever...you guys must have terrible connections. Smile

I know other people than my self that has some times lagged. but here is why I lagg

Well If things would work here in Gerogia(NO NOT THE US STATE) a lot of things would just glide ahead and be good. The same goes for Internet when my connections works as I am promished it is a 8mbit line to georgian and 1mbit to the rest of the world so no problem there. That said things seldom work as promished in Georgia. My apartment is Located in Central Tblisi in the same house as the president actualy. So we seldom have power failing and sutch worries. But internte down here some time works as promished and it every thing is good and more often than not it does not work as promished hence it laggs it drops out. Yes I do miss my old fast and relible line that I had in Sweden before moving here. But now I am here and have to live with what the country can offer me. On the other hand my whife can do aid work here. And that is mutch needed.

So I ask again. How does the client handle the 4 min turn and lagg?
Any one got an answer for me.
Or should I jump on the kids, door bell, telephone wagon as I agree with most of them anyways.

_________________
Superstition brings bad luck.

"he who has relied least on fortune is established
the strongest"
Niccolo Machiavelli

Khor_Varik

Joined: Jul 13, 2005

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 20:19

If we have played a really very lucky 16th turn, and at the last move, the 4 minutes limit doesn't let us score the TD of the victory, can we reload and reload again until we have the same impossible-lucky turn ?

Sziro

Joined: May 07, 2005

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 20:20

Quote:

Kk773 wrote:
...And even if i can sit here all the time, i like to check my mail, listen to music, chat, code, eat, have sex, etc. while i play. How should i talk to my opp, if i need to be consantly aware of the turn limit? Kk

Does your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband enforce the 4 minute rule during sex too? I´ve been doing lots of things while playing BB, but never had the time for sex

You can never know if the guy you talk on the internet is having sex at the monent. Remember that :p

shadow46x2

Joined: Nov 22, 2003

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 20:22

hmmm...

well i've been a very vocal person against this rule, so yeah it's my turn...i haven't read this thread from top to bottom before responding, so i'll hit on points as i come across them...and if i make a point that's already been made....tough...deal with it Smile

first off...christer is really the only pro person that i've seen that can make any valid point at all about the rule....

it's a part of LRB...fumbbl strives to be LRB compliant....

fair enough...i can't really argue with that, nor can anyone, save for maybe amending the rule to be mostly LRB compliant, but with some rules modified for the good of the site and its community....

this is the *only* legitimate support that i've come across for having this rule, while other pro support reasons are shoddy, weakly supported, or just plain inaccurate to begin with....

SeraphimRed wrote:

Players taking more than 4 min a turn = rare
Players nipping to toilet, answering phone, getting a beer = very frequent

End result should be games actually take longer... let's follow Christer's advice and try it, I'm sure most will come to the same conclusion whilst they're left twiddling their thumbs while player A goes to squeeze one out whilst they could be taking their turn.

hmmm...funny...

i'm curious, since when does people going afk once in a game from time to time, to refresh a drink, or do something necessary, extend the game to such an uncontrollable limit that the site warrants inflicting a 4 minute time limit on people?...

Site rules @ http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=help&op=rules wrote:

Don't start a game where there is a chance you won't be able to finish unless your opponent knowing about it. Unless you state otherwise, you are expected to be able to play for 90 minutes.

notice how that says 90 minutes?...

if both coaches take 3 minutes per turn(well under the 4 minute time limit, and a very managable time frame...it's uncommon to rare to see a coach take more than 4 minutes per turn)...and both kickoffs take 4 minutes each for setup...that 104 minutes...a little over the 90 minute "timeframe"....

now...given that, say a coach goes away once during a game to "nip off to the toilet"....say 5 minutes for that...109 minutes....(i won't even touch on the fact that these "afk" breaks don't even happen every single game, but let's just argue that it does for the point of the argument)

are you telling me that your life is so hectic that you can't spare 109 minutes for a game, considering that you're expected to be able to play for 90 minutes regardless?

wow...i'm sorry for you....

Russo wrote:

And for those that "threaten" to go if they "don't get their way" even my 5 year old does not behave like that, so if you do resort to veiled threats to quit then please do as you either:
a) Have a valid reason that stops you from playing and will no longer be able to do so
b) You are a self-centred coach who only wants to see what they want and not the rest of community NEEDS, and therefore we are better without you.

ahhh...russo russo russo....

way to be completely offbase and inconsiderate...

and yes i grasp the irony in me calling someone inconsiderate

first off...

please...tell me...how does this community NEED this change?...i'm waiting....although i won't hold my breath...

basically what you're saying, is the coaches on fumbbl(and it has to be a lot of them, if this change is so necessary) are so slow, that the majority of games are taking uncontrollable amount of times, and are becoming a nuisance...

funny....i've played 800+ games.....and in that time...i've come across maybe...5 coaches that played so slow that i complained about it....the other 795+?....no issues with going over 4 minutes...

you must have some hideous luck if you are so skewed in your belief that this is such a NECESSARY change....how many slow coaches have you played?...the way you hype it up, it sounds like every coach you play breaks the 4 minute time limit....

and yeah, so what if people have claimed they'll stop playing if this change happens?...who cares?..it's their right...by making a change like this, and having it affect people's *REAL LIVES*(you do have one, don't you?...because the way you talk, it seems like you're hardwired into the client and you never take a step outside into the real world), i think people have a right to voice a concern like that....purplechest has already outright stated that a change like this will basically cut his gametime down to 25% of his original playtime....

and frankly....

purplechest > you....

and i'm sure he's not the only one...many coaches have already commented that their gametime will be drastically reduced because they don't wish to run into potential repurcussions on their game if real life intervenes...seems like a fair argument....

so again, tell me how this change is so needed, if it ends up being that the change drives away coaches?....

i'm still waiting on that...

[quote="Russo"If you want to stay and dont want time-limits then play Unranked!![/quote]

alright, sure let's look into that...

at this point in time...bbtime 19:23:17...

there are 31 teams in ranked...there are 14 coaches...

there is 1 in unranked...there is 1 coach...

so basically what you're saying is..."if you don't want to stay and don't want time-limits, then go to unranked, and don't play any more games!"...

way to be compassionate....way to whore the site for yourself and all your "play my way or die" buddies....way to go....

Russo wrote:

Hopefully the moaners will gradually start to see the real implications and not just how it will affect there "old habits"

as opposed to the moaners who watch tournament matches and whine about how slow people play, and not grasping the fact(since the people who want time limits are so un-self-centered, as you put it) that coaches who play games, play for the coaches, not for the spectators?...

nice...

so apparently, if you voice a concern over a change that doesn't just affect your blood bowl life, but it affects your real life as well, you're a moaner....

man...if that's the case...call me a moaner then...i'll bitch moan and complain all day long if it means that some rational thought will be put into a choice that seems to be made without concern for other coaches...

Christer wrote:

(insert Christer's hypothetical cat torturing scenario...poor kitty Sad

)

while i can respect reloading the game if emergencies come up.....

why even bother having to go to that extent, when changes can be made to remove the time limit from ranked matches in general?...

can you agree that the problem with slow playing coaches(and the need for a 4 minute time limit globally), is minimal?...

i can name maybe 3 coaches offhand that play hideously slowly...all fine and dandy, i just don't play them...

i haven't played a game in ages where my opponent was consistently broken the 4 minute rule, and that's without the forced timer....

so, with that in mind, i fail to grasp the reasoning(excluding "it's in lrb, we're lrb compliant" since i've already agreed that that is a fair and valid point) for having that, since it is such a rare occurence in the first place...

also, reloading sometimes takes more time than was eaten up in the original game in the first place!...last time i tried to reload a game, it took 15 minutes to get everything working properly...and that's not uncommon, especially for coaches who don't know how to reload in the first place....

so the solution of "oh don't worry about it, just reload and your fine" seems more counterproductive than it's worth, and will end up making the game longer than if the timer wasn't in place in the first place...

Gebannus wrote:

It's the official rules, it's stops people from taking 10 minute turns, and it would be a shame to let skijunkie's latest feature go to waste.

yeah, because, again, the problem with coaches taking 10 minute turns, is so hideously apparent that the need for this blanket rule is obvious...

please...show me a few games where coach turns took more than 10 minutes, that don't involve publicly known "slow coaches"(whom i'll refrain from pointing out for obvious reasons)....and i say publicly known coaches, since if you join a game with them, well...then..it's your own fault...

as for "oh it'd be a shame to not take advantage of ski's work!"...wow...i don't use small fields...i don't use large fields...i don't use nkelsh's supplied icons....

i'm such a shameful person for not using ski's features...

what a joke....

just because the function exists, doesn't mean we should use it....

razta wrote:

What most people say here that are against this is "OMG WHAT ABOUT REALLIFE I NEED TO OPEN DOOORS EVERY 5 MINS AND ITS NOT FUN TO LOOSE WHEN I HAVE TO DO THAT" basicly thats the whine i see from everyone of you that posted here.

duly noted....and i'll make sure to keep this logged, so that the first time you come in complaining that you lost a match because of the time limit being enforced, when you had an short emergency come up that you had to deal with(such as children peeling laminate in your kitchen, or cats catching their tails on fire)...i'll make sure to paste it for your recollection, so you will have absolutely no reason at all to bitch and complain, since you were in full support of this rule...

have a nice day

CC_Blood wrote:

and other players have to suffer from them having babies? I reckon babies are a kind of externality that has been partly internalized with the time limit.

wow...and "completely heartless jerkoff of the year" award goes to....

tell you what cc_blood...maybe when you get away from your computer, and realize that people have relationships, families, and things other than computer porn and video games...maybe you'll grasp how stupid your comment was...

congratulations...

and on that note....

--j

_________________

origami wrote:

There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet.

altus_bellator

Joined: Oct 12, 2005

Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 20:25

LRB4 & 5 goes under the assumption that your using the tabletop version and not playing online. That being said I think the 4 minute ruleset is an exception that just won't work well in an online format for a slew of reasons, all of which people have stated in one way or another.

I could clearly see why you would turn this on for tourny games, but I think its a mistake having it in the divisions.

Thank you for the clarification, however again I think we need to consider the fact that we're trying to implement a ruleset made for a tabletop game and not an online version of the tabletop game.