| Poll |
| What a Legend would take |
| Pro - Maximum Pain |
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20% |
[ 12 ] |
| Juggernaut - No fend can stop me! |
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27% |
[ 16 ] |
| Grab - Filthy Sidesteppers |
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6% |
[ 4 ] |
| Two heads - Mobile blitz? |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Something Else? |
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27% |
[ 16 ] |
| Rotter Pie |
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17% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 58 |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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 Posted:
Aug 17, 2016 - 18:39 |
 
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Really? Frenzy is worst on killer? Are you joking? Frenzy is best on killers. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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| Posted:
Aug 17, 2016 - 18:45 |
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| NickNutria wrote: | | Frenzy = 100% more blocks, Pro = 50 % more blocks with both skills you would get more cas. Fend is a defensive skill, nice for not being into contact after the opponent blocks you, but it won't get you a single cas more! |
Well the maths are not correct here.
(I am going to only assume you are out of TEAM REROLLS in this post in part because of how the OP says he uses his Blitzer LATE in the turn and saves his Rerolls. Plus I don't want to do ALL of the maths/options.)
If you DOUBLE SKULL on Block 1 with Frenzy you don't get a 2nd Block AND if you POW on Block 1 with Frenzy you are taking the POW (again no 2nd Block). So you do not get twice as many Blocks with Frenzy AND Frenzy comes with it's own set of negatives that Pro does not have.
With Pro... you do have a 50% chance of getting a 2nd roll of the dice on Double Skulls. Plus you NEVER have to follow up so you don't run the same risks of Blocking yourself into a bad situation.
With Frenzy a Double Push result means you MUST follow up and Block again. With Pro you can accept the Push, or try to use Pro. YOU can choose based on the circumstance. You are not locked in by your skill choice.
Plus there are all the other positives you can get from Pro that no other SINGLE SKILL can give you.
Do you need to Dodge away to make your Blitz? Pro can help with that.
Do you need to GFI 1 or 2 times to Blitz your target? Pro can help with that.
Is there a chance you might need to Pick Up The Ball... or Pass a ball... or you need someone to Catch a Pass or a Handoff? Pro can help with that too.
Pro is the best answer.
UNLESS you face tons of Side Step and/of Fend. In that case Grab of Juggernaut would be better.
Some of these guys seem to think that just because you HAVE Pro that you have to USE Pro every time you roll Pushes or something... and that you will always reroll into double Skulls. I can assure the odds of any of those things is the same as every other time you Roll a Block with the same number of dice.
Either that or they believe that every time you roll Double Skulls Pro is going to FAIL to work. It does fail 1/2 the time... and 1/2 the time it works. BUT... remember this... the dice have ALREADY FAILED YOU when you decide to use Pro.
Without Pro in that situation you have already achieved failure... Pro can't make that situation any worse. And IF the roll is so critical and you have a Team Reroll you use that instead.
I have to wonder if these are the same people that do not choose Dirty Player because they think that means they MUST Foul until that player is tossed. Or they don't take Dodge because eventually everyone will have Tackle. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 17, 2016 - 19:03 |
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Pro certainly will get more knockdowns so will give some value, but of course the odd additional double skulls too. You can also try it occasionally on other desperate rolls late in a match.
Frenzy is something I am hesitant to recommend on anything less than move 7 as you may blitz forward and not get back to your line.
Juggernaut will come on handy against some quality sides with stand firm or Fend. So I would prefer that. But Fend definitely has value in keeping your legend alive against other pombers. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 17, 2016 - 19:06 |
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| bghandras wrote: | | Really? Frenzy is worst on killer? Are you joking? Frenzy is best on killers. |
Did anyone say it was worst?
It's not best though. If you want/need to play a more positional game and not just assume the cas dice will let you steam roll every opponent. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 17, 2016 - 19:10 |
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Well, i prefer having the chance to steam roll with cas dice, so i prefer having a dedicated killer. The rest of the team should provide positional handywork. |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 17, 2016 - 19:16 |
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Well, Frenzy doesn't look like a good idea if he blitzes from the ground with only 2 MA left. He'll probably one to get in contact, so if the block results in a push, he is first to GFI. Not a skill for a MA 2 blitzer, in my opinion.  |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 17, 2016 - 19:20 |
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| bghandras wrote: | | Well, i prefer having the chance to steam roll with cas dice, so i prefer having a dedicated killer. The rest of the team should provide positional handywork. |
How does high TV nurgz not have this chance already? It's not as though adding one Frenzy to a cpomber is going to make a large difference.
Now, I once had a cpomb frenzy storm vermin, but there it made more sense (also MA7) because I needed more assured removal from that one guy since there wasn't anyone else on the team who could do it. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 17, 2016 - 19:29 |
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Sure, it is better with higher movement. But checking that nurgle team i saw only this as a really adept killer. |
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DustBunny
Joined: Oct 14, 2008
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| Posted:
Aug 17, 2016 - 19:38 |
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Given the SWL environment, Juggs could work for hurting the elves and other wrasslers and the SF crowd (goddamned Wana Warriors).
Pro isn't the worst idea for the re-roll of some pushes.
Ma5 is too small for a Pombin' frenzeh |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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| licker wrote: | He's a legend, he doesn't need to farm CAS.
He needs to be able to be used more surgically (and continue to live). Fend helps with both of those.
Frenzy is not a bad skill at all, but I hate it on my cpomb because it really takes them out of position frequently. But I don't look at frenzy for the additional chance at pows, I look at it purely from a surf threat point of view. I want to roll pushes with my frenzy guy! I don't even give them tackle usually 
Pro is just... it's just trash. But the pro debates have happened in other threads, no need to revisit them. Save it for your odd big guy you don't want to take dodge on as a 2nd double and your vampires. |
QFT! (licker stop being so damn right, it worries me)
Almost all the good options are missing from the poll.
Frenzy is a negatrait, and best used (if at all) on a side pusher, as licker says. Not an MA5 guy. on an MA5 killer it just means deeper into trouble whether it works or not. Landing yourself already surrounded by the foul assists, or in more TZ's you have to dodge out of. You usually end up basing the entire turn on supporting the frenzy.
Pro is terrible. Avoid.
Juggs is a so-so skill. Are you facing a lot of Wrestle and/or fend, then juggs is great, without them on the opposition it's just bloat.
Grab is worse, really only good for one turner support.
Two heads isn't bad, mobility in hitting is a good thing.
But why didn't DisPr and/or FA make the list? FA stops 1 in 6 blocks on him and 1 in 6 fouls. Can be a life saver. And even a single DisPr can ruin an elf's fun, and give them pause for thought. (i know, i know, the NW have them both already, but still)
Fend (again licker is right) creates freedom of movement and keeps him alive, both good things, and is probably what i would choose.
Kick? He doesnt actually need anything, and is likely to set up centrally. So maybe he could help the team in ways other than just killing stuff.
Guard. you can never have too much guard. |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 17, 2016 - 22:33 |
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Prehensile tail. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 17, 2016 - 23:41 |
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The chest makes a couple good other suggestions. I did take FA on my legend cpomb presti (who is niggled sadly), though I'm not sure it was a better choice than fend would have been. Saying all of that, I play that team very carefully with him since he's my only killer, and he's niggled, so defensive skills are not that important as he rarely is in position to get hit anyway.
Disturbing presence I also thought about, but since I use a BoN I thought that 5 of them should be enough, though clearly on a presti you can make it a bit more mobile.
Guard... well sure, it's always good, I just tend to avoid it on my killers since I nominally want to be able to PO liberally and Guard on a PO player 'feels' sub optimal. Still, not a bad choice, I do take it on CD blockers, even with PO, but those guys are a bit of a different kind of killer.
On CD blockers I really like stand firm actually, but I don't think I'd take it on a cpomb presti (or beastman), you can hopefully get more positional mileage out of taking stand firm on the warriors/beast.
There are other options, 2heads, even tail... those feel more dependent on your personal play style with the player though. The issues I have with both are that most teams are not going out of their way to mark him, and you shouldn't be going out of your way to mark with him. So you don't need 2heads for your dodges, as you aren't dodging much anyway (and MA5 makes him less mobile anyway). You don't get much use out of tail as you generally want him hitting things and killing them, not standing next to things which can hit him back. |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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| Posted:
Aug 18, 2016 - 05:24 |
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| DustBunny wrote: | Given the SWL environment, Juggs could work for hurting the elves and other wrasslers and the SF crowd (goddamned Wana Warriors).
Pro isn't the worst idea for the re-roll of some pushes.
Ma5 is too small for a Pombin' frenzeh |
Firstly leave the warriors out of this, we have enough trouble with clawpomb.
Secondly my opinion is FA or PT
Thirdly, I speak on behalf of all SWL coaches when I raise a toast to gabe managing to clawpombing his way to legend. 'may you be in heaven before nurgle knows you're dead - very very soon' |
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Semitence
Joined: May 18, 2013
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2016 - 09:45 |
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Thanks for all the comments folks, something to stew over.
I hadn't even considered frenzy due to MA5 and being a pomber. Basically meant he'd be doing GFI's for the second block if I were to blitz with him. DP was discounted due to already having five of them, plus it doesn't affect the pickup roll, which tends to be more important anyway.
Fend & Foul Appearance are other ones that didn't even come up on the radar. I didn't even know FA worked against fouls! Given the player isn't anything special in terms of levelling up (just normal rolls) I'm not overly concerned if he bites the dust. Things like tail and guard would make me reluctant to PO, which is a bad thing.
I think it's between FA, Pro and Juggs right now. Or even kick.
Everyone says Pro is terrible without giving a solid reason. Just "it's bad". I don't get it. It lets me turn pushes into pows just over 1/4 of the time, and only results in a turnover 1/72. Also means I can use a RR during the turn, or not burn one "cos it'd be nice to kill this dude".
The other nice thing about Juggs is it means I can push off SF'ers (there are a few in SWL) instead of being hit back on a block (they'd have to commit a blitz). Foul Appearance is really nice for the anti-foul.
Kick is just good. Purple summed it up really well. I don't need more skills on this guy, and this lets him contribute elsewhere.
Edit: My next poll should be "can you tell who my upcoming opponents are?" hint: the ones with the less than helpful advice |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2016 - 09:53 |
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FA does not work on fouls.
Rulebook:
"Foul Appearance (Mutation)
The player's appearance is so horrible that any opposing player that wants to block a player (or use a special attack that takes the place of a block)"
Foul is a separate action, not one that replaces a block at all. Special attack would be eg. stab or chainsaw block. |
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