Rynkky
Joined: Aug 03, 2004
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 Posted:
Jun 01, 2005 - 10:43 |
 
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| Wizard wrote: | | Java that ski uses in the client runs off your system clock so you can write a program to predict the numbers that will be spit out if you can figure out the algorithim that rand() uses. |
The only thing offered by the system clock is the original seed value, nothing more. And you don't need to understand the algorithm to be able to make random number predictor. Only thing you need is the seed.
| Quote: | | Try some research before claiming (out of ignorance and frustration at your most recent game) that the dice in the client are rigged |
Numbers aren't rigged but the way client uses the random number generator makes it seem so. Better way to do this would be two random number generator instances, one for each player. |
Last edited by Rynkky on %b %01, %2005 - %10:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2005 - 10:46 |
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| Wizard wrote: | The random generator in the client is more random than dice
Dice are flawed - particualr edges are sloped more than others, wind resistance, table surface, dice are weighted a few microns to one side... etc.
Dice from a computer are truley random, pick up a C++ book or a Java book and figure it out for yourself.
Random numbers are impossible to generate from a computer itself (computers are not capable of making a choice) the rand() function in Java that ski uses in the client runs off your system clock so you can write a program to predict the numbers that will be spit out if you can figure out the algorithim that rand() uses.
Try some research before claiming (out of ignorance and frustration at your most recent game) that the dice in the client are rigged |
Nice one, you claim the client is random, then prove that it isnt.  |
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Rynkky
Joined: Aug 03, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2005 - 10:48 |
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| Britnoth wrote: | | Nice one, you claim the client is random, then prove that it isnt. |
Shhh! There's lot of research behind this claim..  |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2005 - 10:57 |
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Well i played 4 Tabletop games last week and i had great luck and my opponent had terrible luck. But on FUMBBL, my luck isnt so good, especially on KO rolls! And Moreleys revenge and Re-rolling triple skulls into triple skulls! 
<jest on>
To ease the pain of horrible dice, you could code in a dice rolling button on the site when it gets too much to bear in game  . Then FUMBBL can record your dice rolls and decide if you are lucky or not
</jest> |
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DonKosak
Joined: Apr 06, 2004
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Jun 01, 2005 - 10:58 |
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I suggest the doubters read this, and this. Lots of discussion and lots of explanations from even SkiJunkie himself... 
Come back, if you're still doubters and I'm sure someone here are willing to explain it to you again.
Edit: wohooo, my 100th post - time for some fireworks and a glass of nice cold white wine |
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Rynkky
Joined: Aug 03, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2005 - 11:22 |
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| DonKosak wrote: | I suggest the doubters read this, and this. Lots of discussion and lots of explanations from even SkiJunkie himself...
Come back, if you're still doubters and I'm sure someone here are willing to explain it to you again.
Edit: wohooo, my 100th post - time for some fireworks and a glass of nice cold white wine |
I have read those. Only thing I am criticising of is that same instance of random number generator is being used by both players. Because in this setup other player's good luck will cause bad luck for the other. If both had own generator instances there would not be competition of good numbers.
E.g.
You make a double dice block with PoW and PoW!, then armor roll is successful and blocked player gets SI. To achieve this you just rolled five high numbers. Now, if you end the turn, what do you think will be odds for the other player to achieve same on his/her first double dice block? |
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DonKosak
Joined: Apr 06, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2005 - 11:24 |
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The odds will be exactly the same as they were for you... |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2005 - 11:32 |
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Since the spread of numbers in any given sample that is large enough is equal (and not in smaller sample, such as would be made by two consecutive turns), and the standard deviation is correct for a six-sideddie, the odds will be the same as they were for you. |
_________________
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day; set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. |
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Ludicruz
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
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Jun 01, 2005 - 12:10 |
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I can only say this...if u ask Jinxed about lousy rolls...I think he'll refer to me as well. The only thing that differs us in our constant conflict with nuffle is that when I play Cyco the dices often rolls my way. In all other games we are as lucky me and Jinxed. I have watched several of his games and he has watched mine and we agrre upon having lousy dices for most of the time.
The most tough thing to see for me is when I spectate other players and see them succeed with 3+ and 4+ without blinkin' and I know it's impossible for me to even think of tryin' those moves...
I don't blame the dices generator or the client...though you must stop lease out the admin client Odi (j/k) but I am curious upon what "sacrifice" to nuffle that's necessary to makes at least some dice roll my way??!! |
_________________
"Don't count on luck to win the game for you...but be certain of the fact...that lack of it will stop you from victory." |
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Smess
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2005 - 12:17 |
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What's wrong Mezir ?
Didn't have your irony detector on there ? |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jun 01, 2005 - 12:21 |
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| Ludicruz wrote: | | but I am curious upon what "sacrifice" to nuffle that's necessary to makes at least some dice roll my way??!! |
U have to be a Right Bastard (look at my sig.).
If you do, you will only have sixes in return!
HAIL NUFFLE!!!
btw, I like pie. |
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SideshowBob
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2005 - 12:28 |
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| Ludicruz wrote: |
I don't blame the dices generator or the client...though you must stop lease out the admin client Odi (j/k) but I am curious upon what "sacrifice" to nuffle that's necessary to makes at least some dice roll my way??!! |
I see myself as I pretty lucky coach (except when I lose...), and that is because I sacrifice a goat to nuffle every friday. Just remeber to do it naked in a standard pentagram made of blood and it will all be fine |
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PhilMan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jun 01, 2005 - 12:31 |
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the random genorator doesn't try to average itself out, it is a poisson distribution, it has no memory, on average the score will be 3.5 yes, but the probobility of rolling 111111 is exactly the same as rolling 326155, the probobility of the next number being a 6 is exactly the same as the next number being a 1, no matter what has happened before.
I really hate people unable to understand what random really means... |
_________________
as a friend once said: 'Willys'
"Best Bar in This Street" |
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Wizard
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2005 - 12:36 |
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If you think/are permanently unlucky:
There would be no winners if there were no losers.. |
_________________
"As long as one person lives in darkness then it seems to be a responsibility to tell other people." |
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Rynkky
Joined: Aug 03, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2005 - 12:44 |
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| DonKosak wrote: | | The odds will be exactly the same as they were for you... |
In theory, yes, but now we talking about defined pool of numbers (random number generator with specific seed) and only limited numbers per case. Thus if other player has extreme luck having several good rolls in a row, then there will several bad rolls following those. If turn over happens between the turn point there's nothing the bad luck player can do to fix the situation. Hopefully he/she'll make one die roll action and suffer a turn over, passing "bad luck" to other player.
If you don't believe me I can make you an predictor program for JBB from which you can see past numbers and numbers to be rolled (like next 20). Then play few games and watch the numbers, maybe you'll notice bad streams after good streams. |
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