Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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 Posted:
Mar 15, 2012 - 16:55 |
 
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there are limits to what kinds magic the scheduler can perform, based on the number of coaches that activate.
at the minute there's 9 blackbox games being played, i'd say thats average or probably above.
for as long as its possible for people to make these teams, they're gonna have to have opponents from a fairly limited pool. i don't know how many teams the average coach activates at a time, but i'd guess a lot of people only activate 1 and the average is probably quite low
my suggestion is to make Fan Factor count for double its normal TV when matching
so that pact team with a clawpomb legend and 10 FF would be about 1130 instead of its actual 1030, meaning it would no longer face rookies unless it seriously shredded itself, or deliberately lost games.
i don't think it'd be scary if it was so reduced.
i don't think that type of coach is willing to game its FF by losing games in the box, or if they do then their only objective can be to kill mens and never win, which i think people would get bored of. other players could combat this by refusing to win against it...
(when people try and win) FF is cheese-agnostic, that is it doesn't matter what the type of min max or cheesy exploit it goes for, if it is successful it will push your team higher and be self balancing to some extent
the only people who have zero or low FF are the rookie teams, so this doesn't change the matchups for teams who've got a lot of MNG and need recovery for example |
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blader4411
Joined: Oct 18, 2009
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Mar 15, 2012 - 17:00 |
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FF is already horrible, why make a bad thing worse? |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Mar 15, 2012 - 17:05 |
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| blader4411 wrote: | | FF is already horrible, why make a bad thing worse? |
I'll take that as validation of the concept |
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stej
Joined: Jan 05, 2009
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Mar 15, 2012 - 17:30 |
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Whilst this is a game of chance as well as skill the min max teams often push the game too far toward the region of chance.
Mass clawpomb teams will destroy your team and make it no fun to play if they roll good cas dice. If they dont then its usually an easy win against them.
Mass blodge zons at low TV. If the opposition rolls more pows than expected, they'll likely win. If not, itll be hands down to the zons.
Min max is such a grey area.
Lets just pair teams with over 10 games at random and let the inducements settle it out |
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Mahvo
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Mar 16, 2012 - 12:48 |
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| bigGuy wrote: | Match team based on games played.
Maybe separate "baskets" for:
1-2 games
3-5 games
5-10 games
10-20 games
20+ games
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Basket idea is simple and good. Games played combined with Team Value and there is the relative strength of that team.
Of course since some teams have had a rough start, I propose that you take the games played from average games played on top 3 SPP players in the team (a 60 games played star would bring the cap to 20+ games singlehandedly).
Yes, it would be possible to metagame this also, but it wouldn't lead into "grinding exp for clawbombers or mad skill elves" like it is now. If you want to fight it, you have to either sack your old stars or hire a rookie and make him a top 3 star in your team. 
EDIT:
| Quote: | | Lets just pair teams with over 10 games at random and let the inducements settle it out |
Or this! Pair with TV and buckets up till 20 games and after that it is wild wild west with inducements.  |
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Tomay
Joined: Apr 26, 2008
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Mar 30, 2012 - 02:51 |
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Bring back virus or that other one (based on 2 top spp players not being on the field at once) as (expensive) inducements!
That'll make you balance a little more! |
_________________
Join now and "Create a Legend" |
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Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
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Mar 30, 2012 - 03:40 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | | blader4411 wrote: | | FF is already horrible, why make a bad thing worse? |
I'll take that as validation of the concept |
Awesome Sp00keh... just awesome 
Think about this.....
FF is a measure of how many wins you earned recently. If you are winning lots of games in a row while maintaining a low TV, you are min/maxing. Doubling it's impact below a certain TV will have an impact.
Let's look at a test case.
Their TV pushes up to TV 1210. That seems fairer than TV 1090 for determining matches and allocating inducements.
__Synn |
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krysskroz
Joined: Dec 05, 2009
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Mar 30, 2012 - 05:12 |
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Could it be as simple as making a new value, AVS (average strength) in which the value of the average player is used ([TV - rerolls, coaches, etc]/number of players on roster), use this as a secondary value in matchmaking? First you fit into the TV category and then you are matched based on similar AVS.
If we are talking coding something this would be a lot easier idea than working in things like top SPP players and what not. Very simple calculation. Purely theoretical, as the OG wanted it, maybe there are better more complicated ways. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Mar 30, 2012 - 07:26 |
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krysskroz, I don't htink average would work; imagine 2 legends with 6 normal skills, and 10 lino's with 0 skills. Compare to a noob team with 13 skills spread across 11 players. The 2 legends come across as LESS AVS than the noob team, which I don't think you've intended. |
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Metalsvinet
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
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Mar 30, 2012 - 10:54 |
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| Tomay wrote: | Bring back virus or that other one (based on 2 top spp players not being on the field at once) as (expensive) inducements!
That'll make you balance a little more! |
Could be fun, but useless when facing a team with equal TV.. And I guess that's where the problem lies. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Mar 30, 2012 - 11:40 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | | blader4411 wrote: | | FF is already horrible, why make a bad thing worse? |
I'll take that as validation of the concept |
Don't worry about blader, he likes to be confrontational.
The only negative effects this idea would have for me, is on the old grandfathered teams, most of them would surely have the FF balanced by now and on very high TV successful teams that might not get matched. However I'm sure there'd be a way of working around that.
The idea of using FF for matchmaking has been aired before, this way of having a partial effect but also affecting TV would certainly be better thant he current system in my opinion. |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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Mar 30, 2012 - 12:48 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | [
The only negative effects this idea would have for me, is on the old grandfathered teams, most of them would surely have the FF balanced by now and on very high TV successful teams that might not get matched. However I'm sure there'd be a way of working around that.
The idea of using FF for matchmaking has been aired before, this way of having a partial effect but also affecting TV would certainly be better thant he current system in my opinion. |
I don't mind the idea that much, but it would really hurt a successful high TV team that got clawed down for a game. For example, with the Lanterns, I was quite frequently at FF 12-13 with several journeymen and only a couple of good saurii at 1400 TV after drawing a hyperbash team at 1800 TV. Taking my TV to 1500-1600 would have been very painful for trying to recover... If this only applies under 1300 TV, I think it's a great idea. |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Mar 30, 2012 - 12:51 |
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"make Fan Factor count for double its normal TV when matching"
one negative effect i just thought of for the idea is that it would perhaps encourage people to 'shed' their FF by only playing a few games then re-making the team, over and over.
most people haven't got this kind of inclination, but i guess it would be the opposite of the original problem: using rookie teams to pick on established ones
"Don't worry about blader"
I was actually glad he complained about it. gave me the chance for my pithy retort, but also made me realise that of all the things a team can add, skills/stats are the best thing for their TV.
all the things you can buy aren't as good, FF is perhaps the least useful by TV , and you can't even directly choose it |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Mar 30, 2012 - 12:56 |
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| Hitonagashi wrote: | | I don't mind the idea that much, but it would really hurt a successful high TV team that got clawed down for a game. For example, with the Lanterns, I was quite frequently at FF 12-13 with several journeymen and only a couple of good saurii at 1400 TV after drawing a hyperbash team at 1800 TV. Taking my TV to 1500-1600 would have been very painful for trying to recover... If this only applies under 1300 TV, I think it's a great idea. |
Well, the other team has also got to double their FF
so say you were 1800, you get 3x MNG and now you're 1400 TV. your FF is 12, so now your new matchmaking is 1520
your next opponent, say they've only got 6 FF. to be matched against you, means their real TV is 1460.
so because of your high FF, you're "giving away" 60 TV or 3 skills. this, arguably, is like a golf handicap and makes the game more likely to be evenly balanced.
If they had a similar win rate to you, then the FF-doubling would affect both of you equally and it would have no effect compared to a recovery game you'd get in the existing system
I can see arguments against the golf handicap aspect, but i don't think recovery games aspect are going to be a downside to this suggestion. |
Last edited by Sp00keh on %b %30, %2012 - %13:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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Mar 30, 2012 - 12:59 |
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This FF idea, it's like getting a team BWR into the formula...just saying.
I kind of like better Mavho's refinement on the baskets idea (with some tinkering) |
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