propuppetmaster
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
|
 Posted:
Apr 15, 2012 - 21:15 |
 
|
as soon as the bash coaches start to throw more Juggernaut on their teams...which shoulkd be soon...all the wrestler nonsense will fall to the wayside...
I think 1 or 2 as ball attack types are good but to spam it on the linos isnt such a hot idea, i think |
|
|
Emeric
Joined: May 25, 2011
|
| Posted:
Apr 15, 2012 - 23:31 |
|
Well, juggernaut being used only on blitz, and blitz being not so often in a match directed to a lineman, even if he wrestles, i doubt that bash coaches taking more juggernaut would really affect choice of wrestle soon.
But i sincerely hope bash coaches will read your post and take more jugg, less PO  |
_________________
Fill the BOX grid !
Francophone? #fumbbl.fr est là pour vous ! |
|
johnnih
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 00:05 |
|
| PainState wrote: | | johnnih wrote: | | Fend reduces the amount of blocks you take because it improves position. |
I would like to point out at this time that you can only use fend is if you are actually blocked. |
Oh really?
| PainState wrote: |
My logic is not faulty it is impecable! The best odds on defense when getting blocked is blodge the best odds on offense when blocking is Block/Tackle. So the best all around player possible is the Blodge/Tackle player. When looking at the blocking dice odds only. Which I would like to point out is probally the single most important game mechanic in the game, since it is the most used action besides move. |
If your logic is impecable what was the purpose of making this thread? There is nothinig to discuss it would seem?
You seem adamant in your belief, yet totally ignore that the overall position on the field has a great impact on number of good blocks you get during your turn. I'm not saying this approach to the team will not work for you, only that you are simplifying things.
| PainState wrote: |
| johnnih wrote: | | I think your plan will make a good but sub-optimal team. Unfortuantely also very bland. In my eyes you are mistaking when you believe you can make the best possible team by giving all players a "best possible" skill combo. |
OH MY!!! That is Awesome!!!! Ok all you CPOMB coaches you heard it here first. DO NOT take the best possible skill combo.    
|
Clawpomb might be overpowered and spamming the combo certainly is powerful, yet this is not a thread about clawpombers. There's plenty of those.
Really, this is degenerating into a lot of opinionated nonsense. the_Sage already put it best:
| the_Sage wrote: | | If you would normally dodge your players away to minimize contact, then wrestle fend does indeed greatly limit the number of blocks against you, as well as the number of dodges you make. If you would normally stay toe to toe, then blodge or wrodge is the way to go. |
|
|
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 16:17 |
|
| johnnih wrote: | | I'm not saying this approach to the team will not work for you, only that you are simplifying things. |
Of course Iam. When discussing BB there are way to many variables when discussing tactics and strategy. IMO the best way to discuss some issues is in a void, ignore the variables and make it simple.
Example: Some coaches have thrown out that DE linos should go Bl/SS to start out. Ok that is valid, and given the PeteW stamp of approval many years ago.
So when discussing the merits of BL/SS VS Blodge we could spin that discussion in about 20 diffrent directions when factoring in all the variables. But at the same time do we not all agree that if your Lino gets to 31+ SPP and rolls no doubles or stat upgrades (which at this point PeteW bows out of the conversation because that never happens to his DE's for some reason) that said lino will have Blodge/SS? Dont do it, dont say one of them needs Kick, I swear next time I meet you in game I will kick you with the DP on T16 as my revenge.
Very simple way of looking at it. So the discussion then is a back and forth on the merits of SS over Dodge when the player is between 16-30 SPP. IMO I will take the merits of dodge in that range over the postioning merits of SS. And ignore in this conversation the 52 variable reasons to take SS over dodge and the 71 reasons to take dodge over SS.
| johnnih wrote: | | Really, this is degenerating into a lot of opinionated nonsense. the_Sage already put it best: |
Well welcome to the world of FUMBBL Tactics/Strategy discussions. It allways degenerates into a lot of opinionated nonsense. BUT at the same time every once in a whille a real "gem" of an idea is formed under the crushing weight and pressure of the opinionated nonsense.
Also there is this: I will leave Sages comment up.
| the_Sage wrote: | | If you would normally dodge your players away to minimize contact, then wrestle fend does indeed greatly limit the number of blocks against you, as well as the number of dodges you make. If you would normally stay toe to toe, then blodge or wrodge is the way to go. |
Somtimes coaches are reading this kind of stuff and have no input into the actual thread BUT at the same time are reading it trying to get an idea of good tactics and strategy. So Sage's comments might fall on deaf ears with some, other coaches who are on the sideline might get a better understanding of some tactics to use in game.
Back to my OP. I asked the simple question of what are coaches thoughts on going blodge first, which they promptly corrected my thinking and I agree with them that ignoring +Stats and doubles might not be a wise move. Also I asked if anybody had tried this out before hand. Sadly no comment on that, probally because they looked at it in the most simplistic terms. Every Darkie blodges up at some point, it comes down to how the +Stat and doubles rolls come out and then did not brow beat me with that fact.
The two other subtle questions I asked were kinda left on the sidelines. The 16 man squad and a horde of cash plan I have. Probally because no one has really tried that under CRP or they tried and threw up their arms in disgust and stoped trying.
BTW the all Blodge fast plan couples in with the plan to get a horde of cash, 1.5 MIL +, and also the 16 man squad. Those two goals will be very hard if Iam allways replacing players and having to buy J-men all the time. Thus Blodge gives me the best "chance" of success in 50+ matches. |
_________________
Comish of the:  |
|
maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 16:31 |
|
I will still take +AG and +ST on rookie elf linos. The +AG ones in particular are nice, because they are easy to skill up as they become better passers than anyone on the team. That gives the benefits of Short Passes on 2+ and quicker skill ups (I'd give them Dodge next over Block/Wrestle).
+ST elves are a great long-term investment, but not much in the short term. I have a hard time focusing strictly short-term, but the eventual pay-off seems clearly worthwhile.
I'd make a short list of players who your protect/apo, and let the rest churn a bit. You'll still skill the team up slowly, but it will be less even. You'll have a handful of 0-1 skill players, and a core of 4-5 players with 4-5 skills. That core will do your blizting, ball handling...anything really important. I think at the same TV, the team with the better core of players will win over the team with more evenly skilled players.
You can still play them at low TV for an extended period to build a war chest for later on. When you're ready to prep for a major, an influx of cheap rookie linos to beef up your bench is probably better than 10-20 games played at high TV trying to keep 11+ players at blodge+. |
_________________
Author of Firehurler (Twinborn Trilogy Book #1), Aethersmith (Book #2), Sourcethief (Book #3) |
|
shusaku
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 16:43 |
|
yeah skip +st on lino or runner. Get at least one ag5. |
|
|
Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 16:46 |
|
| PainState wrote: |
The two other subtle questions I asked were kinda left on the sidelines. The 16 man squad and a horde of cash plan I have. Probally because no one has really tried that under CRP or they tried and threw up their arms in disgust and stoped trying.
BTW the all Blodge fast plan couples in with the plan to get a horde of cash, 1.5 MIL +, and also the 16 man squad. Those two goals will be very hard if Iam allways replacing players and having to buy J-men all the time. Thus Blodge gives me the best "chance" of success in 50+ matches. |
If you pick your games, you might get a 16 man squad. I tried a similar tactic in Box (lots of blodging sidestepping high elves, and while it was very successful while they all survived (benches of 14+ players completely stuff most clawbomb rosters), they died, and I was left with some extremely high TV players, some low TV players, and struggling to replace my losses again. This is the HE team in question...I'd kinda like to rebuild it, but sacking the best passer in the Box is something I'm loathe to do, as sadly, is losing because of his TV. |
|
|
johnnih
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 17:36 |
|
| PainState wrote: | | (...)So when discussing the merits of BL/SS VS Blodge we could spin that discussion in about 20 diffrent directions when factoring in all the variables. But at the same time do we not all agree that if your Lino gets to 31+ SPP and rolls no doubles or stat upgrades (which at this point PeteW bows out of the conversation because that never happens to his DE's for some reason) that said lino will have Blodge/SS? Dont do it, dont say one of them needs Kick, I swear next time I meet you in game I will kick you with the DP on T16 as my revenge. |
I'd like to throw fend and wrestle into that discussion as well to further complicate things. But as you said, you simplify things on purpose and nothing wrong with that, I just like to employ a larger range of different skills for additional options. Perhabs my teams are less effective for it, but it also cause some trouble for people who are not as used to play against it. The real point is, of course, that it is more fun to me.
And yeah, I'm one of those who'll take kick early in most elf teams' development. You can kick my kicker in the groin if you want, I won't hold it against you 
| PainState wrote: | (...)| johnnih wrote: | | Really, this is degenerating into a lot of opinionated nonsense. the_Sage already put it best: |
Well welcome to the world of FUMBBL Tactics/Strategy discussions. It allways degenerates into a lot of opinionated nonsense. BUT at the same time every once in a whille a real "gem" of an idea is formed under the crushing weight and pressure of the opinionated nonsense. |
I quite like your way of putting it, hehe.
| PainState wrote: | (...)The two other subtle questions I asked were kinda left on the sidelines. The 16 man squad and a horde of cash plan I have. Probally because no one has really tried that under CRP or they tried and threw up their arms in disgust and stoped trying.
BTW the all Blodge fast plan couples in with the plan to get a horde of cash, 1.5 MIL +, and also the 16 man squad. Those two goals will be very hard if Iam allways replacing players and having to buy J-men all the time. Thus Blodge gives me the best "chance" of success in 50+ matches. |
Yeah, that part of the plan makes the team concept interesting, even if it is hardcore cookie cutter on paper. I'd like to follow your progression. As someone commented, a 16 man blodge roster (if you ever got there) would be very high TV. 1760k for the players alone, not counting FF, APO, RRs. But good luck, it would be nice to see a sturdy delf team take it to all the killers out there.
Thanks for the whole well written post. It sat a lot better with me then your first one. |
|
|
selfy_74
Joined: Sep 03, 2010
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 18:08 |
|
Blodge may give you the best odds on the block dice, but wrestle fend will cut down the number of block dice that are rolled against you. It's as simple as that. I'm not saying Blodge is bad, and I'm not suggesting you take wrestle fend on everyone, and not even specifically dark elves. Throw some dodge in there too and wrestle fend is a nice combo. It cuts down on dodging dice too. Of course Elves are alright at dodging, but "the less dice you roll...." as the saying goes. |
_________________
Selfy_74: Verified Stunty Leeg Master
 |
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 18:31 |
|
Wow are people really trying to say Fend is better than Dodge. Or even as good, or even remotely useful on an Elf team? Seriously.... seriously? Fend? wow....... |
|
|
maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 18:42 |
|
I'd like a bit of clarification of why Fend reduces the number of blocks an elf team takes.
Are people trying to compare it against just standing in a tackle zone like a dope?
Dodge not only reduces the likelihood of getting knocked over by a block, it also makes dodging (duh) out of tackle zones easier at the end of a turn. |
_________________
Author of Firehurler (Twinborn Trilogy Book #1), Aethersmith (Book #2), Sourcethief (Book #3) |
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 19:01 |
|
I think I see Purplegoo peaking out from behind the curtain waiting to make his entrance on the stage. |
_________________
Comish of the: |
|
propuppetmaster
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 19:12 |
|
These advocates of Fend are the very same people that are scared to death of CPOMB, I would guess.
Let them add all the fend they want to their teams because it makes them feel safe. Its not like those teams are going to play in any kind of real competition because fend=scared when you spam it on linos instead of a strategic positional (ball carrier or a Blitzer) and I havent seen very many teams which do well in the competition scene that have spammed fend on linos, the closest would be Malmir's Colourful Characters but the Fend was on his CDB's which falls in line witht he strategic placements of them and not lino spamming... |
|
|
maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 19:27 |
|
Players I have Fend on (all teams, not a huge list)
Zon Lino (had Blodge first)
Gutter Runner (had Blodge/SS first)
DE blitzer (Blodge/Guard who had a -AG before taking Fend)
Necro Zombie (zombie line fodder, with longest active streak of 0 MVPs I am aware of at 65 games, with a cool back story as to how we got him)
That's it. That's out of 12 Ranked teams and 7 Box teams. Only once did I take it on a non-blodger. |
|
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 19:39 |
|
Iam a big fan of Fend
BUT
1)It is a skill choice that should not be taken until 31+ SPP or later depending on player postion.
2)You have to spam the skill for best effect. One lone dude with fend is ignored. Kick probally would have been a better choice for that guy or DP
3)My Blood Sea Buccaneers have spamed Fend and I like it. BUT now I have realized that for humans, Fend is not for catchers or throwers who dont mix it up. Why waste a skill on fend for a catcher? You dont want him to get blocked in the first place. So if he is getting blocked 5+ times a match then that is a postional problem not a skill problem, My catcher gets blocked about 1 time every 3 games. Fend on him is a waste, I will admit it right now.
Fend/SF on my Legend Blitzer is awesome.
Block/Tackle/Fend is nice. But notice it is my 31+ Skill. Also Fend gets pushed way down on the list if I get lucky with some doubles/+STAT. |
_________________
Comish of the: |
|
|
|
| |
Finishing the 60 Gam...
Search
