Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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 Posted:
Oct 18, 2012 - 18:51 |
 
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| Reisender wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | Nelphine wrote: | 'pure bash teams don't get wrestle' is nonsense. A pure bash team will take DP, and having DP en masse means take wrestle!
That being said, amazons probably won't have much DP. |
I don't think I have seen any chaos teams with a wrestle player before tbh. I'm sure there will be some. But I don't see the benefit, it just makes them really vulnerable to blitzes and the pure bash teams of this edition are fairly squishy too. I also don't get the wrestle DP thing either, I would never want my DP player to have two skills either, seems a total waste of TV to me in this edition. |
wrestle tackle two heads would be a standard sweeper of any chaos team, if there wasn´t the "make the most flexible Bbteam onedimensional"- clawpomb |
yeah true, you might even see the odd leap VLL one too, which would be nice, but as you say CPOMB on all menz seems to be the fashion atm.
But aside from 1 in each team purely for sacking I wouldn't bother in any bash teams, personally I don't get this Wrestle DP thing for example, you have a greater chance of causing injury with block than wrestle and you should be able to get a player down often enough to foul without if you want to be a heavy fouler.
I have seen Khemri for example with a lot of Wrestle players and I felt it severely weakens the team to elves, you just need all your guys standing against high Ag teams and the more players prone the better for your opponent. Also Wrestle gets knacked by juggernaut at high TV anyway, which makes all your khemri skeleton linos easy pickings for a star blitzer in a bash team. |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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| Posted:
Oct 18, 2012 - 18:55 |
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you don't see that many juggers around to build a strategy around them. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 18, 2012 - 19:04 |
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I think you see at least one in most high TV teams now. There is usually a blitzer with this skills after CPOMB/POMB block Tackle/frenzy. And one is all it takes to ruin this wrestle on G access only players tactic. |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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| Posted:
Oct 18, 2012 - 19:27 |
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Just checked some teams on the black box sprint/premiership page and not a juggernaut to be seen.
And well if you face a single juggernaut killer you will finally have a target to hit/foul instead of hunting a normal clawplomber who has 3+ clone friends making your efforts worthless.  |
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Thanks to the BBRC for all the great work you did. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Oct 18, 2012 - 19:36 |
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nah, wrestle isn't much of a defensive skill. Sure, I have wrestle; but my opponent can still pow/push or pow me. If I have dodge, he just needs tackle, which he should have for ball carrier sacking anyway.
Elves are a bad reason for skeletons to have wrestle? HA! Tomb Guardians don't have tackle (mostly), so they need pow's to take down blodgers. On the other hand, the lowly wrestle skeleton takes down a blodger on a pow or a double down. This gives more targets to your DP players (since your MB/PO/Tackle blitz-ra's are hopefully removing them from the pitch or stunning them, making a foul unworthy of them.) And a standing skeleton only limits dodges.. except dodge elves are going to dodge away 35/36 times anyway (maybe 8/9 if he has to dodge past the skeleton for some reason), so your standing skeleton really doesn't do all that much. Whereas even if you can't foul him, a knocked down elf still has his MA reduced by 3, making it much easier for one of your other players to chase him down next time.
Wrestle all the way for DP teams! (except on your killers/ball carriers, who get block) |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Oct 18, 2012 - 19:43 |
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| licker wrote: |
re: fend...
Fend doesn't do a damn thing on both/down. I love wrestle and fend on skaven linemen though. Not the best option on elves as they can take dodge 1st or 2nd skill. |
No, but if the idea of a wrestle/dp player is to keep him out of tackle zones. A fend/DP player is going to do that better.
And if the player marking the DP is that juicy a target, then having tied down by a 2 skill lino isn't the worst thing in the world anyway. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 18, 2012 - 19:48 |
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| Garion wrote: | But aside from 1 in each team purely for sacking I wouldn't bother in any bash teams, personally I don't get this Wrestle DP thing for example, you have a greater chance of causing injury with block than wrestle and you should be able to get a player down often enough to foul without if you want to be a heavy fouler.
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I think you may be slightly missing the point here.
No one is talking about taking wrestle over block on your designated hitters. Nominally these are 'blitzers' or BGs (or various ST4s), they have block, MB, PO, Tackle...
What is being discussed is that on your fodder (linemen, zombs, skeles, ...) you are better off having some wrestle instead of block to make DP have more targets.
Why do I even want to have a block zombie? Why do I even want to have any skills on my zombies? Well if I take dp on them and they make it to 16spp, then what? Block or Wrestle? Wrestle is superior for those players in my mind.
If I have fast linemen (rats, and other MA6/7) then wrestle is nice in that it unmarks me on defense, and then I can move further than the other guy without a dodge (or the same, in theory).
Block on a linerat? Just begging him to take more blocks aren't you? First block is both/down, 2nd block is something else. With wrestle 1st block is both guys prone, 2nd block never happens. Now, you can say the assister is free to move, on the other hand, if they want to mark your rat, he's not free to move. There is a tradeoff clearly, it's an it depends situation as most situations in BB are.
And wrestle is a better defensive skill than block! Because unless they want to foul you after you go prone, they cannot block or blitz you!
This actually matters for some teams with AV7 linemen (or facing claw). You want to reduce the number of blocks you have to take, not keep on standing there so they can keep on punching you in the face.
I will readily grant that I don't take a lot of wrestle on my teams, more because my line fodder doesn't last that long, but I've become convinced that it's frequently better than block across a sampling of your line fodder. And as a 2nd skill for anyone with DP. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 18, 2012 - 19:50 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | licker wrote: |
re: fend...
Fend doesn't do a damn thing on both/down. I love wrestle and fend on skaven linemen though. Not the best option on elves as they can take dodge 1st or 2nd skill. |
No, but if the idea of a wrestle/dp player is to keep him out of tackle zones. A fend/DP player is going to do that better.
And if the player marking the DP is that juicy a target, then having tied down by a 2 skill lino isn't the worst thing in the world anyway. |
Actually that's not the main idea, it's just a handy side effect. Most DP players don't want a 2nd skill anyway right? Which is better though on offense? W or Fend? Clearly W is. Fend *may* be better sometimes on defense, but it's far too dependent on the position. Now I have nothing really against fend, but I wouldn't take it on my DPs (unless I'm norse) before I take wrestle. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 18, 2012 - 19:55 |
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naa I wasn't missing the point I just disagree really  but I guess that's what makes the game interesting; peoples different approaches etc... shame in this editions diversity of builds is so lacking really. I totally agree with you about skaven line-rats though wrestle is the way to go there. But as I said they are a fast team so being prone doesn't hurt you too much really and the more people down with rats the better. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Oct 18, 2012 - 20:02 |
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My rotters always took wrestle after dp. Quite liked it really. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Oct 18, 2012 - 20:21 |
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I put wrestle on my orc linemen, cos it is funny. and useful. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Oct 18, 2012 - 21:10 |
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| licker wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | | licker wrote: |
re: fend...
Fend doesn't do a damn thing on both/down. I love wrestle and fend on skaven linemen though. Not the best option on elves as they can take dodge 1st or 2nd skill. |
No, but if the idea of a wrestle/dp player is to keep him out of tackle zones. A fend/DP player is going to do that better.
And if the player marking the DP is that juicy a target, then having tied down by a 2 skill lino isn't the worst thing in the world anyway. |
Actually that's not the main idea, it's just a handy side effect. Most DP players don't want a 2nd skill anyway right? Which is better though on offense? W or Fend? Clearly W is. Fend *may* be better sometimes on defense, but it's far too dependent on the position. Now I have nothing really against fend, but I wouldn't take it on my DPs (unless I'm norse) before I take wrestle. |
Agreed. |
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