ErobererZim
Joined: Dec 19, 2009
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 Posted:
Feb 26, 2013 - 20:29 |
 
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| uzkulak wrote: | All credit to whatball, its a brave man who can hold their hand up and admit to making a mistake like that.
In regard to the "overpowered" bit, most gnomes will never skill up, they are too slow and remain quite fragile in real terms, so the skill access thing is a red herring IMO. Block and tackle are the real power skills in this league and they still need doubles for that. As they should. |
Real Power Block+Tackle Yes and Gnomes have 2Dudes who have this pretty fast too cause starting with Block AND G,S Access. And DONT FORGET AL YOUR LINOS can without a Double get Guard. So u have on high TV a massive better SlaveTeam with 5-6POMB Dudes and a Couble of Guards. There get more o the Pitch like yours but slower as yours FROM the Pitch, when there hit, the Pain is Coming  . |
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Crook666
Joined: Oct 16, 2012
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Feb 26, 2013 - 20:30 |
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| Motskari wrote: | | cameronhawkins wrote: | So.... is everything else about them going to stay the same? Ag3? Av8? S access...? Holy schamoly!
If so, then I will offer a $100 donation to FUMBBL every time someone wins against my Gnome team! I remain exceeding confident that I will not exceed my planned donation of $50 per year. |
Then you´ll want to play my cheaters and we can make Christer one happy site owner. |
Leave some of those gnomes alive. My fenbeasts want to have a word with a certain squig slayer who promised to kill my almost-legend pixie. |
Last edited by Crook666 on %b %26, %2013 - %20:%Feb; edited 2 times in total |
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cowhead
Joined: Oct 22, 2006
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Feb 26, 2013 - 20:31 |
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My Gnomes are extremely happy to be getting Dodge. It will be a nice extra to go with all that ST 
-Gnomans Land- |
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MisterFurious
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2013 - 20:32 |
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| uzkulak wrote: | | In regard to the "overpowered" bit, most gnomes will never skill up, they are too slow and remain quite fragile in real terms, so the skill access thing is a red herring IMO. Block and tackle are the real power skills in this league and they still need doubles for that. As they should. |
Exactly. I only ever skilled one up and that was because he happened to catch a bouncing ball and I managed to score a touchdown with him later and in a later game he got an MVP. They rarely score touchdowns. They rarely get casualties. You almost never blitz with them. There's also the fact that you usually only have two or three of them on the pitch at a time. All the people talking about having MB, PO, Guarding Gnomes everywhere have clearly never actually played the team. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Feb 26, 2013 - 20:44 |
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| MisterFurious wrote: | | All the people talking about having MB, PO, Guarding Gnomes everywhere have clearly never actually played the team. |
Or they have played them and they play to win.
Gnomes are a roster that if you take this serious then the roster is very clear.
2X Slayers
2X Daredevils (your ball carriers)
2X Bombers (You need some random bomb action)
10X Gnomes
Dont play with cannons. Dont need the 2 extra bombers, one a half is fine.
You build basically your stunty dorf team and pound away.
The guys who play gnomes for stunty fun. Well they play with all the postionals and are not looking to min/max skill and/or postional player selection with the sole purpose of winning in mind.
Or another comparison...you could say they are like Chaos Pact. Clear postional intent on the roster BUT you could ignore that and go in the mass lino (gnome) direction and forget all the fluff postional stuff and play to win. |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Feb 26, 2013 - 20:46 |
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| MisterFurious wrote: | | You forgot 4 MV and 2 ST. S access doesn't mean much to players that very rarely skill up. |
I had two linos skill up my last game and they BOTH rolled 6,4. After much consideration about trying to mitigate their weakness (MA4), or avoiding unnecesasry bloat (by taking normal skills) I decided to maximize their strengths (high AV) but putting +AV on both of them. Got me two AV9 line gnomes now.
A winning move? Probably not. But they'll be marking big guys and stabbers for what remains of their likely very short little lives. |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Feb 26, 2013 - 20:49 |
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as for application counts, i'd rather keep that under wraps, since the applicants are all rookies, i'd prefer not to give people an advantage...even though 95% of people people who are playing have already applied...
what i will say, is the applied races seem to look like this...you have two tiers...the first tier is a couple of races with a lot of apps between them...the second tier is the rest oft he league which is pretty equally distributed between them...except for poor gnomes and pygmies, who only have 1 team each...
i'm cheering for both of them...
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Feb 26, 2013 - 20:49 |
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sorry for the double post, but i felt that this should be separated from the tournament info...
a point from a "condescending old-timer"...
| ErobererZim wrote: | | I dont think so that there be a Disaster, there be now weak at start of the Team but later it will be awesome with Mass POMB and Guard Dudes. Its now like the normal Chaos Team hard at start, but latter it will be horrible Strong. |
this is a prime example of why mass groupthink is a bad idea...
your thinking fails to take into account that a stunty with no dodge will *NEVER* get to 31 spp, so they will never actually achieve this monstrous "mass pomb guard dude" that you seem to fear...
people need to stop "developing" ideas with their own bias in place, and actually look at things objectively...eroberer, i'll take that one step further, and i'll say you actually need to play a gnome team extensively to see how challenging it really is to develop this monstrosity that you seem to think is so easy to get...
here's a hint, people..you don't develop a team by determining the worst possible "petew" situation, and then design to counteract that...you design from realistic perceptions, and realistic results...
there is never going to be a mass popuation of these massive 31spp monstrosity starting lineups on cannon fodder...it doesn't happen...stop fearing it, and stop actively lobbying for changes that are detrimental to the league, just because you are scared of the boogeyman...
the worst case scenario is one, maybe two, coaches are lucky bastard enough to get it...but thankfully petew doesn't play stunty...
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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Corvidius
Joined: Feb 15, 2011
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2013 - 20:50 |
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Not played too much with the changes yet but I think this is a good call Whatball. |
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mr-maverick
Joined: Sep 10, 2010
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Feb 26, 2013 - 20:52 |
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/me does the 'told U so' dance
I'm happy they are getting dodge back
Who knew WB would have the balls to admit a mistake like that?
Hats (the pointy gnome ones) off to U sir!! |
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-The early bird catches the worm, but its the second mouse that gets the cheese. |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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Feb 26, 2013 - 20:54 |
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I still think Dodge is a bad idea (my fix would have been to give +1 MA to the Daredevils).
That said, I think Whatball made exactly the right move here. Gnomes aren't getting played enough, so we won't ever get the corpus of games to see what the results are. I also agree with Painstate (I think for the first time)  , about the Pact like nature of Gnomes. Most people play Stunty for fun, so they suck. Putting Dodge back will encourage people to play with them more, which means that we'll get data on how powerful they actually are. |
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baelnic
Joined: May 27, 2011
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Feb 26, 2013 - 20:58 |
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Bummer about Pygmies. I was going to play them but I already have a pygmy team so decided to roll something different.
I can attest that Gnomes were not fun to play without dodge. |
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ErobererZim
Joined: Dec 19, 2009
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Feb 26, 2013 - 21:03 |
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Gnomes lvl slow but there lvl, cause there live much longer as ALL other Stuntyplayers. When u want to have fast skilling Players than u play the wrong Team or the Gnomes wrong. Bombs dont get SPP, Gnomes Tank and SO LONGER THERE LIVE will be harder and Stronger, Squig Slayers hit hard and be the Blitzer and Dare Devils be the Carriers (Scorer)., the Team is based on specificated players, Gnomes be the Dorfs of stunty, there be Small, tough, strong, drung, ugly and for sure not Agile. Before we made the Changes we talk all over Fluff, (this isnt Fluffy for the Team so not).
DODGE isnt FLUFF for Gnomes so NO. Will some kind tell me that a stupid Gnome can Dance Agile around he pitch like a lil tichy small Gid (AG3/Dodge/Stunty). NOOO, he will hit them to Death and win on this Way. Will he Dodge away against the Ugly Bad Ogre, NO he will say nasty Words and provoke em. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Feb 26, 2013 - 21:14 |
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cameronhawkins, I too will gladly give your money to fumbbl. I won't do it every game, as I'm definitely not a super awesome coach, but any time your gnomes want a game against me, bam! I'll take them on. Even with the dodge that I so strongly support. |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Feb 26, 2013 - 21:14 |
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| ErobererZim wrote: | | Gnomes lvl slow but there lvl, cause there live much longer as ALL other Stuntyplayers. |
really?...where's your data to back that up?...
because my anecdotal evidence shows that out of 20 games, i have 10 dead gnomes out of 11 total dead players...
feel free to check yourself
as i said, it's a one off example...but my anecdotal evidence is a lot more solid than your opinion...
| ErobererZim wrote: | | When u want to have fast skilling Players than u play the wrong Team or the Gnomes wrong. Bombs dont get SPP, Gnomes Tank and SO LONGER THERE LIVE will be harder and Stronger, Squig Slayers hit hard and be the Blitzer and Dare Devils be the Carriers (Scorer). |
with all due respect, i think i'm the last person that you should be saying this to...
i had a hand in developing, revamping, and maintaining this league for several years...i think i have a good understanding of how teams are meant to be played...i also think that someone who has played one game with gnomes should never be telling anyone that they don't know how to play a team...
| ErobererZim wrote: | | DODGE isnt FLUFF for Gnomes so NO. Will some kind tell me that a stupid Gnome can Dance Agile around he pitch like a lil tichy small Gid (AG3/Dodge/Stunty). |
i've said it time and time and time again...here's one more time to make sure you get it through your head...
FLUFF DOES NOT TRUMP GAME MECHANICS
fluff helps you come up with a concept and guide your development so you aren't randomly picking crap because it looks cool...
case in point, and whatball can attest to this, when i developed hugo for the tournament, i had a vision in mind of what i wanted...once i put it on paper, the vision only got me so far...i had an image of a raving lunatic with chainsaws that barreled through anything that got in its way...
when it got down to putting it to paper, i couldn't put all of that on, because it was too damned much, so the mechanics had to be ratcheted down to make the star playable, and not broken...
taking dodge off of gnomes, sure it may fit the fluff to an extent...but it breaks the team and having a playable race is more important than having it fit fluff 100%...
if you can't understand this very basic principle of design, then you really shouldn't be contributing to development conversations, because you're injecting random noise that does nothing but muck up the process, and potentially damage what can be a solid creation...
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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