FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: Jun 26, 2006

Posted: Oct 13, 2012 - 14:20

Sorry for double posting, but going to add Hypnotic Gaze (Extraordinary)

The player may use hypnotic gaze at the end
of his Move Action on one opposing player who is in an adjacent square.

When the Vampire fail his Blood Lust is can do his Special action. In his Special Action he can carry out a move action. Hypnotic Gaze is performed in his Move action and therefore can perform this action.

Ehlers

Joined: Jun 26, 2006

Posted: Oct 13, 2012 - 14:27

uuni wrote:

That is a wrong version of the rules. Correct version is m780049a_Blood_Bowl_Competition_Rules.

Ah oki
Damn google then -_-

WhatBall

Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Posted: Oct 13, 2012 - 15:14

Kalimar wrote:

The only debatable case is failing a Pickup next to a Thrall. Is the vampire allowed to bite (and not being sent off) or not. All other cases are clear to me (failing a Dodge etc. - no Bite when prone). I wouldn't mind changing this in the client if we can agree. I don't think it makes vampires overpowered and still requires some careful planming (placing a thrall just so).

I think the rules are pretty clear that your turn ends when you fail the pickup, so no biting. If he were to fail a dodge and be prone, would he get to bite, no. Same thing. I'm not sure why this is such an issue?

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Igvy

Joined: Apr 29, 2007

Posted: Oct 13, 2012 - 15:18

WhatBall wrote:

Kalimar wrote:

The only debatable case is failing a Pickup next to a Thrall. Is the vampire allowed to bite (and not being sent off) or not. All other cases are clear to me (failing a Dodge etc. - no Bite when prone). I wouldn't mind changing this in the client if we can agree. I don't think it makes vampires overpowered and still requires some careful planming (placing a thrall just so).

I think the rules are pretty clear that your turn ends when you fail the pickup, so no biting. If he were to fail a dodge and be prone, would he get to bite, no. Same thing. I'm not sure why this is such an issue?

Because vamps are underpowered. so we need to change the rules.

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Oct 13, 2012 - 16:25

It's NOT the same thing as failing a dodge and being prone, because the bloodlust rules specifically state that you cannot bite while prone.

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Oct 13, 2012 - 16:29

As per the voluntary/involuntary argument comparing to hypno gaze:

Where is bloodlust listed as involuntary? Why should feeding on a maiden be similar to bouncing, instead of feeding on a thrall? I would think that feeding on a maiden would be closer to feeding on a thrall - from a fluff point of view (which obviously means nothing for the rules but oh well), for instance, if you fail a dodge and hit the ground then BAM! The vampire is so winded that his bloodlust is knocked out of him. Or, he fails the pick up, the crowd goes wild, both teams go nuts, and he gets so distracted by his miserable performance that his bloodlust is gone.

The tentacles argument makes this even worse: The beast of Nurgle holds my vampire so tightly he can't dodge away, and can't even feed on the thrall right next to him. But he CAN suddenly run free to run all the way across the pitch and over a wall? What?

There seems to be no particular reason to compare feeding to hypno gaze, and galak's argument, but NOT compare bloodlust to hypno gaze, and galak's argument.

zakatan

Joined: May 17, 2008

Posted: Oct 13, 2012 - 16:41

pythrr wrote:

Underworlder wrote:

wabbling

you are wrong

client is right

forza OBBA!

i think this is a pretty good summary of this discussion

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Garion

Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Posted: Oct 13, 2012 - 17:05

Nelphine wrote:

The tentacles argument makes this even worse: The beast of Nurgle holds my vampire so tightly he can't dodge away, and can't even feed on the thrall right next to him. But he CAN suddenly run free to run all the way across the pitch and over a wall? What?

Maybe the vamp turns in to a bat a flies off for a bite. And we all know bats aren't really that into to bloodbowl. They prefer cricket.

zakatan

Joined: May 17, 2008

Posted: Oct 13, 2012 - 17:13

somewhere in the fluff i've seen the "bat thing" mentioned

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Underworlder

Joined: Sep 17, 2012

Posted: Oct 13, 2012 - 19:41

Wow... I thought I was the one that didn't understand the rule
Instead I'm one of many

I do not consider "biting" a form of action. You can choose to do or not to do an action, EVERY action. You cannot choose to feed or not to feed; if you're near a thrall you feed, if you aren't you don't
"At the end of an action" for me perfectly fit a failed turnover, that is "the end of the action" (and the end of the turn), because after the turnover you cannot take action, but you still have to do everything the rules force you to do, like bite the thrall, roll armor for failed dodges, roll catches for bounching balls after a fumble, a failed pass, a failed pickup and so on.

It's not a big issue. I play vamps every now and then, and not for competitive issue, only for fun... I will only have to remember to not try a pickup with a bloodlusting vampire, except for very critical situation or with a usable reroll at hand.

CHEER

zakatan

Joined: May 17, 2008

Posted: Oct 14, 2012 - 01:51

Underworlder wrote:

Wow... I thought I was the one that didn't understand the rule
Instead I'm one of many

I do not consider "biting" a form of action. You can choose to do or not to do an action, EVERY action. You cannot choose to feed or not to feed; if you're near a thrall you feed, if you aren't you don't
"At the end of an action" for me perfectly fit a failed turnover, that is "the end of the action" (and the end of the turn), because after the turnover you cannot take action, but you still have to do everything the rules force you to do, like bite the thrall, roll armor for failed dodges, roll catches for bounching balls after a fumble, a failed pass, a failed pickup and so on.

It's not a big issue. I play vamps every now and then, and not for competitive issue, only for fun... I will only have to remember to not try a pickup with a bloodlusting vampire, except for very critical situation or with a usable reroll at hand.

CHEER

AFAIK, you can choose not to bite a thrall even if you have one standing next to the vamp. Then of course the vamp goes and it's a turnover.

On the other hand, the biting is inside your turn. Failing a pick-up is a turnover ("the turn ends immediately"), hence the vamp fails to bite and has to go.

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pythrr

Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Posted: Oct 14, 2012 - 03:21

for the love of all that is unholy, rules lawyers should be lined up against the wall and shot.

with bricks.

until they stop.

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Igvy

Joined: Apr 29, 2007

Posted: Oct 14, 2012 - 06:26

pythrr wrote:

for the love of all that is unholy, rules lawyers should be lined up against the wall and shot.

with bricks.

until they stop.

Next you will be telling me I should be playing to have fun!

Seriously there is nothing more to this game then rules.

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Oct 14, 2012 - 06:48

And for one more thing if you don't like my 'bloodlust isn't involuntary' argument:

Why should feeding be voluntary? WHO you feed on is voluntary, even if you choose no one - but choosing to feed is not.

Thus, if somehow this vague 'english based' involuntary/voluntary argument works for you, then where does it say feeding is voluntary? It could just as easily be involuntary. (Contrasted to hypno gaze, where if you choose to hypno gaze at the end of an action, you must select a target, you cannot choose no one; so hypno gaze itself is voluntary, since by choosing to do it, you must do something with it, as opposed to feeding, which you MUST do, even if you choose no one.)

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Oct 14, 2012 - 06:52

And another appeal to the balance side of things for why comparing feeding/bloodlust to hypno gaze is incorrect.

If I fail a pick up, my turn ends.
If I fail a pick up, but can still use hypno gaze, then my turn ends, and my opponent is directly negatively influenced.
If I fail a pick up, but cannot use hypno gaze, then my turn ends.
If I fail a pick up, but can still bite, then my turn ends, and I have a shot to directly negatively influence myself.
If I fail a pick up, but cannot bite, then my turn ends, and I directly negatively influence me worse than any of the previous options.

Hypno gaze directly affects your opponent. Feeding/biting/bloodlust does not directly influence your opponent. Thus the two COULD have different interpretations, even though they have somewhat similar wording.