PaddyMick
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
|
 Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 12:10 |
 
|
Does Ag6 help when passing in tackle zones? |
|
|
tmoila
Joined: Nov 25, 2012
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 12:22 |
|
| PaddyMick wrote: | | Does Ag6 help when passing in tackle zones? |
No it doesn't. When passing, all passes fumble on 1 before (like in any other roll) or AFTER modifiers, regardless of your agility.
edit: And to clarify, it doesn't help any more than Ag5. |
|
|
happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 12:50 |
|
I was just looking at this and I don't get it. I can see where it says in the passing rules that a 1 before modification fails, but I don't see where it says a 1 after modification fails. And wouldn't that mean ag 6 *would* help on a pass where you don't roll a hard one? And if not, why does it help on an ag 6 dodge into 2 tacklezones? Am not reading an important part from somewhere?
EDIT: Ah found it, it wasn't in the passing section but later on. Given that it contradicts what's in the passing section, I wonder which one is the typo.  |
_________________
Come join us in #metabox, the Discord channel for HLP, ARR, and E.L.F. in the box!
 |
|
tmoila
Joined: Nov 25, 2012
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 13:28 |
|
Yeah, it's defined in the extra rules section (the rules we all use). Basic game passing doesn't even have fumbles, just inaccurate and accurate passes. |
_________________
gg |
|
juck101
Joined: Nov 16, 2003
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 14:54 |
|
Yup. Its' amazing like st7 is amazing.
To understand all the reasons why, you just gotta try it. I thought it was bloat on a DE ag5 blitzer until I gave it go. In a heartbeat I would take it now on ANY player. It probably needs dodge and ideally leap to get the most out of it and you sorted that already  Grats |
|
|
Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 15:22 |
|
I think a lot of the discussion here is driven by anecdotal memories of spectacular plays made by AG6 players. We all know Blood Bowl is a odds-based game.
We all know doing things on a 2 is pretty good. Sometimes we forget that doing them on a three isn't so horrible.
Let's say you have an AG6 gutter, and he has to take six 2+ actions (2+, 2+, 2+, 2+, 2+ 2+)to do whatever it is you're trying to achieve. The odds on this come out to 66% with a reroll in hand.
Now, suppose the same action of events performed by an AG5 player would require four 2's and two threes (2+, 3+, 3+, 2+, 2+, 2+). The odds change, but only drop to 50%.
Obviously 66% is better than 50%, and indeed, that 16% difference in probability can often make a huge difference in making that difficult game-winning play. It can't be ignored that whatever skill you did decide to take in place of AG6 is also going to have a game impact. That might be block, preventing the lethal bothdown 3 turns ago and creating a situation where your gutter runner still exists. Maybe it's sidestep preventing the surf, or winning the game through a late oneturn touchdown. Perhaps it's Sure Hands that preserved a reroll and ensured you had one to use on your crazy lategame play. Maybe it's the cost, and instead of a wizard your opponent played the game with a bribe.
Ultimately, this probably won't ever get solved. Some will prefer AG6 and others will decide AG5 is "good enough". I'm in the latter camp. |
|
|
Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 16:55 |
|
Why is this thread still going after happy won it? Free yourselves, the answer is already in plain sight! |
|
|
licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 18:48 |
|
This thread was finished after the 2nd post man. |
|
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 19:46 |
|
What are you guys going on about that AG6 does not help out on passing?
AG6 does not help on leaping because there are no modifiers to the leap. So Ag5/6 both leap on a 2+
Passing on the other hand does have modifiers.
AG6 is a base 1+
AG5 is a base 2+
So if you pass to long range... AG5 Needs a 3+ and AG6 needs a 2+ For accurate pass
Long Bomb is 4+ and 3+ for accurate pass.
Then you can also suffer from TZ modifiers and so forth.
SO this thought that AG6 is pointless on passing, well, you have no clue about the rules on passing, which I doubt or attempting to show that AG6 is pointless with a pointless example of how AG6 does not effect passing in any way. |
_________________
Comish of the:  |
|
tmoila
Joined: Nov 25, 2012
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 20:35 |
|
| PainState wrote: | What are you guys going on about that AG6 does not help out on passing?
AG6 does not help on leaping because there are no modifiers to the leap. So Ag5/6 both leap on a 2+
Passing on the other hand does have modifiers.
AG6 is a base 1+
AG5 is a base 2+
So if you pass to long range... AG5 Needs a 3+ and AG6 needs a 2+ For accurate pass
Long Bomb is 4+ and 3+ for accurate pass.
Then you can also suffer from TZ modifiers and so forth.
SO this thought that AG6 is pointless on passing, well, you have no clue about the rules on passing, which I doubt or attempting to show that AG6 is pointless with a pointless example of how AG6 does not effect passing in any way. |
When passing, a roll of 1 before or after modifiers is a fumble. Hence the Ag6's 1+ in agility table is meaningless.
I hope that clarifies to you why you don't need more than Ag5 when passing. If you want to check it from rulebook, it is pg 22. |
|
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 20:54 |
|
Never mind
I see were you are coming from and fall out of this discussion. |
_________________
Comish of the: |
|
tmoila
Joined: Nov 25, 2012
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 21:03 |
|
You do know that when passing long passes you get -1 to the roll.
You roll 2 when passing a long pass (-1 modifier). The modified result is 1. A 1 before or after modifications is fumble. It doesn't ask what agility you have.
You roll 3 when passing a long pass (-1 modifier). The modified result is 2. With Ag5 you have accurate pass. With Ag6 you have accurate pass.
You roll 3 when passing a long bomb (-2 modifier). The modified result is 1. Once again, modified result is 1 and that is a fumble.
You roll 4 when passing a long bomb (-2 modifier). The modified result is 2. With Ag5 you have accurate pass. With Ag6 you have accurate pass.
PainState, you do get it now? |
_________________
gg |
|
uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 21:08 |
|
yeah, its a pity that, it limits the value of +ag - and we would all like to see more "wow" plays. Wouldnt we?
But of course there are other situations where ag6 can be useful. The problem is these dont pop up every game, and skill rr are often more valuable probability wise on "every day" rolls. ie ag4 is as good as ag6 most of the time, unlike str which does scale somewhat. Sad days. |
|
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 21:14 |
|
Oh, I get it totally. |
_________________
Comish of the: |
|
happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
|
| Posted:
May 16, 2015 - 21:55 |
|
| uzkulak wrote: | yeah, its a pity that, it limits the value of +ag - and we would all like to see more "wow" plays. Wouldnt we?
But of course there are other situations where ag6 can be useful. The problem is these dont pop up every game, and skill rr are often more valuable probability wise on "every day" rolls. ie ag4 is as good as ag6 most of the time, unlike str which does scale somewhat. Sad days. |
It strikes me that this is probably just a mistake in the rule book (and unintended from a design point of view). The fluff from the section indicates that it's hard to throw around too many tackle zones, and that's the reason for the "before or after modification" line. But that just doesn't make any sense, as the *only* situation it would come into play is for an ag 6 player. Otherwise, a 1 before or after modification is already a fail! So I'm guessing someone thought they were being fluffy putting that in there but in reality it just makes no sense that somehow being more agile translates into having a harder time with tackle zones while throwing. But them's the rules we have! Oh well. |
_________________
Come join us in #metabox, the Discord channel for HLP, ARR, and E.L.F. in the box!
|
|
|
|
| |
TSC Draft
Search
