Aflo
Joined: Jun 16, 2009
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Mar 23, 2015 - 18:44 |
 
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Who cares if elf-playing coaches like to play other elves? Pimping out their teams for tournies or otherwise, who even really cares? Who as an adult human being, (presumably with relationships, careers and a life) is devoting time in their brain to make other grown men 'elf-balling' a concerning issue? That's mental. |
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Loew
Joined: Feb 02, 2005
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Mar 23, 2015 - 20:05 |
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I don't mind a bit of elfbowl now and then...and if coaches generally enjoy the fast and flashy games more, why not? The goal is to enjoy the game, after all.
Also, I think agile vs agile is not per se easy mode...in fact, it can be quite tough games to win.
It get's a bit fishy when one coach only accepts games from other elfs with less tackle than their own team...But for me that is in the realm of a) such a coach exposes himself for ridicule and b) will have a hard time in scheduled games. Sadly, whoever wrote it before, is right: the community aspect of fumbbl is not as noticeable as it was in the times of active IRC and manual matchmaking, so that there is less incentive to behave according to the group mind (a mixed blessing)
and then there is such blatant cherry picking that even I find it highly unacceptable, if, say, someone has tons of Woodelf teams and plays almost exclusively vs stunties or unexperienced coaches.
btw, what would be the preferred workflow to report such a coach? is it reportworthy at all?
btw2 why the hell would someone have several hundreds of coaches on his friend list? |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Mar 23, 2015 - 20:19 |
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| Loew wrote: | | the community aspect of fumbbl is not as noticeable as it was in the times of active IRC and manual matchmaking, so that there is less incentive to behave according to the group mind (a mixed blessing) |
I have been paying attention to the issue carefully over the years and there is a precise time when the cherrypicking threads stop: It's with the introduction of the CRP rules.
Not with the introduction of fishbowl or anything the like.
Why is this less of an issue in these days? Essentially because the gap between skilled and unskilled teams is much smaller.
Christer just recently threw some tables around our ears that visualised that high level teams actually won less exceeding a certain level.
In light of these changes the excuse of a tournament entry limit feels a bit artificial.
As I mentioned earlier, rather allow more entries into the tournament than try to overhaul the division because of it. It's a somewhat disoriented goal.
I for my part think cherrypicking is still an issue to a degree, it is just not a very big issue like it used to be. And as I said before, there is probably no thinkable fix that would be less invasive than the divisions current outlining.
This is to be said that with Blackbox does exist a valid alternative to how you want to approach the game. With league exists a division where your games are not rated.
Overall there is very little ammo for this type of concern. |
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backelie
Joined: Jul 20, 2010
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Mar 23, 2015 - 20:25 |
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Stop being all rational we spent a lot of time sharpening our pitchforks! |
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coombz
Joined: Oct 12, 2010
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Mar 23, 2015 - 20:36 |
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| easilyamused wrote: | | King_Ghidra wrote: | | If the coaches accused have done nothing wrong, why aren't the admins sticking up for them and admonishing the accusers? |
Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it is not. |
Sure, but this really does highlight the massive hypocrisy with the way the rule is applied.
Before I continue, I should be clear that I, personally, am not a fan of 'no name and shame' kinds of rules. But...if you're going to have one, at least enforce it fairly.
When some scumbag coach has done something entirely reprehensible and a non-specific (no naming) angry thread has been made, it's locked before it can even get off the ground, the post is sometimes edited so you can't tell what the fuss was about, AND the thread starter is usually roundly admonished for breaking the 'name & shame' rules.
In this case, as King Ghidra pointed out, we have 6 pages where a certain amount of mud has been slung at certain teams and coaches, over something that doesn't even seem to be a rules violation (? maybe)...doesn't it seem like, in practice, the rule is only protecting the bad guys?
You could say it doesn't matter, because if pre-tourney mega picking is not a rules issue, then the accused coaches have nothing to be ashamed about, therefore 'naming and shaming' doesn't apply...but I got the impression that the rule applied to all badmouthing of other coaches' actions, whether legal or illegal ;o |
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They found 10 grams, seized my whip and took my knife...
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Wizfall
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
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Mar 23, 2015 - 22:52 |
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The main issue is that R is not a competitive division by default.
By the rules that let you choose the match-up, R is as competitive as the coach playing in it want it to be (so not at all to very challenging).
And some coaches who plays in it in a more competitive way felt wronged because it is written it's a competitive division while it's not really one by "definition".
Number of games played in R is very stable (last 3 years).
Number of games in Box have dramatically constantly decreased last 2 years to the point the worst was to fear but since then Box pick up quite strongly.
20% more game played in February 2015 than in February 2014 in B so the trend is quite good for this year. |
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Aflo
Joined: Jun 16, 2009
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Mar 23, 2015 - 23:22 |
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Under the CRP ruleset blackbox is, in my mind, the only competitive division on the site. Picking is near unavoidable in ranked, as a result of unconscious bias or not. Well, unless you have an accept-all-offers and offer all games policy, in which case you might as well play box. |
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Scaramanga
Joined: May 01, 2012
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Mar 23, 2015 - 23:48 |
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| Aflo wrote: | | Who cares if elf-playing coaches like to play other elves? Pimping out their teams for tournies or otherwise, who even really cares? Who as an adult human being, (presumably with relationships, careers and a life) is devoting time in their brain to make other grown men 'elf-balling' a concerning issue? That's mental. |
yeah !!!! |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Mar 24, 2015 - 00:01 |
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| Scaramanga wrote: | | Aflo wrote: | | Who cares if elf-playing coaches like to play other elves? Pimping out their teams for tournies or otherwise, who even really cares? Who as an adult human being, (presumably with relationships, careers and a life) is devoting time in their brain to make other grown men 'elf-balling' a concerning issue? That's mental. |
yeah !!!! |
I was going to take a big dump in this thread because of how utterly pointless it is.
Thanks for saving me the effort! |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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Mar 25, 2015 - 21:10 |
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Since a few people asked, I'm one of the coaches who was kicked from a major for picking. I still think it was a completely idiotic decision, and no longer participate in site tournaments. Basically I set up two very soft recovery games between the preliminaries and the main round.
edit: maybe we don't need all the drama. |
Last edited by Rat_Salat on %b %25, %2015 - %21:%Mar; edited 2 times in total |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Mar 25, 2015 - 21:24 |
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@Rat
Sir, are you drunk? Are you on a bender?
I have no clue what you are trying to tell us, trying to let us know how you got the shaft.
Because the evidence you just presented...IS the definition of picking and pimping for a major.
Iam seriously confused on your state of mind right now. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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Mar 25, 2015 - 21:28 |
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People asked about coaches who got booted from a major for picking.
Site admins make the rules, and they decided it was bad enough to get booted for. Haven't lost a lot of sleep over it, but I also don't play tournaments any more.
Trust me, I'm not trying to plead a 3 year old case. Ancient history. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Mar 26, 2015 - 00:16 |
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So the issue with the boot was in SETTING UP the easy matches... as in you made some arrangement to get 2 easy matches... and not that you just stuck your team on gamefinder and played 2 easy teams that happened to offer a game or accept a game offer. Is that correct? Just asking to see the difference.
Anyways. Since my Elf team was one of the teams NAMED and SHAMED for not lining up to be slaughtered by teams loaded with Tackle and Mighty Blow I thought I my defend myself.
My teams 1st game was played against a coach named frostyogginz. Check him out if you will. https://fumbbl.com/~frostynogginz I am NOT shaming him, despite the naming of him. If you look you will see that frostynuggets hasn't been on FUMBBL for over SIX YEARS. Yeah... my team is over 6 years old... and has played 43 games. Not exactly a team I started and pimped for a Major. But they did develop over time into a few stat monsters that I have utterly mis-coached and underutilized in multiple matches as our 15-5-23 record will attest.
My team the Freedown Flames https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=498678 is a team I have fluffed out fairly well. They are a team that is home to ALL ELF RACES. Some of the players are Dark Elves, High Elves, Wood Elves, etc. Players that are outcasts among their own kind that have a home in Freedown. A team that leads by example among Elves to encourage peace and harmony despite their differences.
This was one of my 1st ever Elf teams. A team I started using before I had any clue of how to use Elves. I didn't understand the 1 step-back Defense, I still really can't 1-turn worth a damn and don't even have a player with Leap (not yet). It is probably accurate to say that I still don't know how to use Elves very well.
I have lots of team on FUMBBL... I don't play any one of them very often. I just pick 3 to 6 teams I might want to use on a given day and look for a matchup that seems fair to me. I don't put any thought into how many times my CD's have played Orcs, or how many times my Humans have played Norse, or any of that BS people are so butthurt over. I just look for a FAIR GAME and offer multiple games that no one accepts and accept games I am offered that seem fair. GUESS which teams rush to offer my Elf team games the fastest? BINGO. Other Elf teams and Skaven teams and teams like that. So I accept those games and play them.
I am also VERY MUCH fond of MIRROR MATCHES. I love Orc vs Orc or CD vs CD or Norse vs Norse. I also really like BASH vs BASH and TWEENER vs TWEENER and BALLER vs BALLER types of matches best. I used to want to have a team of every race to enter into each of the XFL Tournaments. I have since realized I don't like coaching some races. But as any XFL Admin could attest I am rarely not applying to one of those Tournaments... I even WON the XFL Chaos one time.
So anyway... I was NAMED... but I am NOT ASHAMED. Anybody that is so butthurt over my crappy coaching of a crappy Elf team to throw a fit needs to get over it. When you see me in context as a coach it becomes obvious I am not violating any site rules. And it should also be obvious I am no threat to WIN a MAJOR... unless I become a CLPOMBER Coach... and a MINMAXER... and someone else actually coaches the team for me.
And if you think somehow my Elf team kept another one of your teams OUT by the TV cutoff. Think again. I have a Norse team sitting on the shelf at 2070k https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=480474 and 3 other teams I could worked on before the UI to still keep your team out.
I just wanted to use these Elfs because they had obviously PEAKED as a team. They will likely never be this good again thanks to 2 straight games vs Dorfs loaded with Tackle and Mighty Blow. And I am OK with that. I probably won't even play this team again until the next XFL Elf is announced. Although... being NAMED and SHAMED as a notorious team might encourage me to play them more often. idk
See you on the pitch in a FAIR MATCH or in a TOURNAMENT and only occasionally in the BOX. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Mar 26, 2015 - 00:27 |
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Ok, now Iam offended...just because I play 99% of my games with a human team in the ranked div. I have to assume I have been named and shamed as a lowly TPOMB coach and I can expect resistance to accepting my green lights.
Iam further offended that my skillful use of the dirty boot is never mentioned, that is a, gift I have, ? , that is over looked.
So all you coaches...BITE ME!!! IAM COMING FOR YOU!!!!!! |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Mar 26, 2015 - 00:38 |
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GERMAN picking SCANDAL revival 2015!!! |
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