Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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 Posted:
Jan 06, 2011 - 19:32 |
 
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| WhatBall wrote: | The new guide touches on the forums. With Big C's blessing it would also be a good time to clean up the Forum categories (imho of course). I find there are just too many categories, some barely used, and it makes it all a bit cluttered and 'empty' of chatter.
My suggestions (feel free to disagree):
- Make a new category (yes, I said remove, but we need it to remove others) that is called 'Dead Forums' or something. Or 'Archive' or 'Niggled Fora'. This is where old and unused categories go.
- Remove 'Ideas and bug reports' (I.e. send it to the Archive). Bug reports for the site should go to the bug tracker, ideas could go in the general forum to liven it up.
-Send Faction to the Reserves Box. (Archives)
- Take recent FFB threads of relevance and stick them in Box, move the rest to the Archives as well. (Once 15 January rolls around.)
- Combine Obits and Ads in the GLN section.
- Retire the JJBB feature request forum as it is no longer developed.
- Change the name of JJBB Customization to Game Customization or Client Customization. (I know it is site related too, maybe a better name?)
- Remove FFB Client Bugs (with Kalimar/Lakrillo approval, so people use the Bug tracker instead. It only adds confusion and duplication.
That would eliminate 6 forums and add one from the current 26. About a 20% reduction in categories. |
I was just thinking the same thing Whatball. The forums are a little messy at the moment. Also I vote for Retired forums  |
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uuni
Joined: Mar 12, 2010
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2011 - 20:53 |
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| Loew wrote: | short suggestion: the hint that Java is needed and the appropriate link should be at the start of the guide, maybe at the point where the client is first introduced.
I think it will be very frustrating for the odd user that has no Java installed to get to the point where he is ready to play, has made first contact with another coach willing to play him etc, just to realize that he must install some other program first. |
I agree with this if is that many people do not have the appropriate Java installed. However, I am wondering if is this the case. Do not the most computers these days come with Java preinstalled? How is it with Windows, in OS X it seems to be always preinstalled?
If Java is a marginal problem, I propose that the mention of the Java would be in a troubleshooting checklist in order to reduce clutter. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2011 - 21:19 |
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Ok, this is what I have, so far! Critique away.
edit:: Have posted a new draft. Erased this to prevent responses t oout-of-date things. If you want to know what it said, read Mr.Foulscumm's sober (shockingly) critique. Otherwise, tell me what you think of attempt 2. |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis
Last edited by Macavity on %b %06, %2011 - %23:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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MadTias
Joined: Jun 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2011 - 22:01 |
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| Macavity wrote: | Ok, this is what I have, so far! Critique away.
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4) Naming the author of this guide is the correct answer to almost every forum poll. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2011 - 22:03 |
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Maybe a mention in point 3 of the second question of in-jokes.... |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2011 - 22:30 |
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| Macavity wrote: | Ok, this is what I have, so far! Critique away.
What is Fumbbl?
1) It is not your site/It is your site.
This is not your site. Christer owns and runs this site. He is not being paid for it, and he owes you nothing. When you post a question in the forums, no one is paid to answer it, when you disagree with a policy, no one is "losing a customer" if you quit.
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Grumpy old man warning. All of it's true of course. But does have to be phrased this way? Informative but not really a warm welcome.
| Macavity wrote: |
This is your site, and mine, and every member's. Every person who does answer a newbie's question is a person like you. Every league was started by a person like you. Some of our features and divisions were added because of people just like you sharing their ideas. Christer listens, and if you have a good idea, and many people agree, and you are willing to put in some effort to make it happen, it just might!
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Also true and will work way better if you change the first part that I mentioned.
| Macavity wrote: |
2) It's the world's biggest League!
All that stuff at the end of the rule book about leagues? That's what Ranked and BlackBox divisions are. Huge leagues. With lots of players. Lots. Who have played lots of games. Lots. They have had lots of strategy discussions. Lots. I repeated that word, because what it really means is you probably won't surprise us. Your brilliant strategy has probably been done, and written about, and likely defeated and written about why it's dumb. Your greatest player, with awesome skills is not as great as a Troll with 50+ TDs. Your credibility as a nerd wherever you are from does not impress anyone, until they see it convincingly themselves. You may have been a big fish in a small pond, you are now a small fish on a roller coaster, in a gyroscope, somewhere left of the known universe. Which brings us to the last thing Fumbll is |
Again probably something that new players getting FUMBBL it need to understand. Could use a little less elitist smuck here though. As of right now, I'm not even sure that FUMBBL is the worlds biggest league anymore, not when you look at the number of active coaches and matches anyway.
| Macavity wrote: |
3) A Community.
This is a community. A weird, dysfunctional, in-mates running the asylum type, but still a community. You can come just to game, but the Fumbbl experience happens on chat (in-game and IRC) and in the forums. People know each other here. Not everyone knows everyone, but like any workplace, or hangout, or family, there are un-written rules alongside the written ones, people used as scapegoats, people highly respected, groups, sides, outcasts, and everything else you might expect.
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Inmates running the asylum? Yeah, maybe stay clear of the asylum bit. It adds flavor, sure, is it really the way to describe the community?
| Macavity wrote: |
How do I fit in?
1) Give a good first impression. You might be a wonderful person, but when you write your first post/blog entry/chat comment that's all the rest of us know about you. Don't make it whiny, don't sound entitled, don't assume you've considered every possibility if it's a strategy issue. "How do I get this stupid thing working?" gives us a different impression from, "Hey guys, I'm new, and having trouble following launch intructions. Can someone give me advice?"
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Yes, wait a few years before you turn on the charm.
| Macavity wrote: |
2) Remember this is a world-spanning community. To paraphrase internet nerd hero David Morgan-Marr, "You, and every single person you know, does NOT constitute 'most people'." This applies to expecting Europeans to know American slang, thinking everyone who plays paints their own miniatures, and claiming that "no one thinks of that as a swear" when your team name gets changed by an Admin. There is certainly a place to discuss what you feel is appropriate in censorship, but saying your buddies would not be offended is hardly grounds to claim no one would be. Also remember not everyone is first language English. If you think someone could not possibly have meant what they said, check before freaking out!
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Words of wisdom here too. Freaking out should be reserved for the people who always screw up what they are saying and then get mad at others for not understanding keyboard face rolling.
| Macavity wrote: |
3) Act like a guest for a little bit. Jumping into some forum and chat conversations here is akin to joining your girlfriend's father and uncles in their discussion on politics the first time you meet them. When coach A makes a comment suggesting one tournament structure is flawed, and coach B jumps on him and tells him to shut up, coach B looks like a jerk. Coach B may be a jerk, but coach A may have been harping on this, in every forum thread, for months, and the general concensus is that he DOES need to shut up about it.
Listen, and discover how things flow, before letting loose.
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At this point in the critique I'm beginning to suspect that you're actually writing a guide to the internet and not a newcomers guide at all. Granted, the community is on the internet. I think I lost track of where this all was heading 
| Macavity wrote: |
Ok, that's all nice and generic, but what is this place really like?
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Ah yes, you did have a plan after all.
| Macavity wrote: |
1) The community is older, on average, than you probably would guess. If you're a teenager, you may be playing coaches with kids your age. Doesn't mean younger folks can't or don't fit in, but don't be shocked if your idle comment on Anal Retentive behaviour is responded to by a professional psychologist. Collectively, we know a lot. It's also old in a time of existence sense. There is a pecking order, and though it is not defined rigidly, people may assume you are wrong simply because of who you are arguing with. See the number 3 answer to the last question.
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Or did you? 
| Macavity wrote: |
2) Many members of the community have run out of patience with certain topics. It may be your first crack at approaching it, and in an ideal world, people would treat every person bringing up, say, when one should foul, the same way. We won't. After 328, "fouling is for jerks" threads, people may just tell you to shut up. Looking at the Forum sticky on "Classic Threads on Common Topics" may help you avoid venom based on years of things not involving you. Being respectful and not calling out a particular opponent when mentioning dis-liked tactics will also help.
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Yeah I'm just going to stop here and go play World of Tanks. It's a good "don't be an ass to strangers on the internet" guide. I was expecting something more akin to a "beginners guide to playing on Fumbbl"
Mr_Foulscumm gives Macavity a pie for effort. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2011 - 22:39 |
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Much as I love trading blows with you, Scumm, I'll take what you've said to think about a bit. My bit certainly was not meant to be the practical section of this venture, but I was leaning towards presentation for those who come from more of a generic gaming background. Get back to you on making it more specific. |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2011 - 22:49 |
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I'm dyslexic?  |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2011 - 23:27 |
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Attempt #2
What is Fumbbl?
1) It is a FAN site
This is not endorsed or run by the original makers of the game. It's done for free by Christer! He does have the ultimate say, as the owner of the servers, but it's a fan site, and we are all fans!
This is your site, and mine, and every member's. Every person who answers a newbie's question is a person like you. Every league was started by a person like you. Some of our features and divisions were added because of people just like you sharing their ideas. Christer listens, and if you have a good idea, and many people agree, and you are willing to put in some effort to make it happen, it just might!
2) It's a big place!
There is a lot going on. Different divisions. Different Leagues. Different Tournaments. Taking some time to find out what style of play and opponents you want, and matching your division choice to that will add a great deal to your fun.
Blackbox is for competitive gamers, who are mostly concerned with a)getting games quickly and b)testing themselves.
Ranked is more friendly to people very fond of their developing players, or their win record as you have the option to reject matches which you feel would go against you quickly. It is also is currently the most played in division, and a good place to go if you want to find an opponent. All Major tournaments (huge bragging rights) are in Ranked, so it's certainly not lacking competition, either.
Academy is for new players. As a new player, seriously consider playing there for a bit before launching yourself into the sea. Think of it as the equivalent to playing the 1st player campaign in Starcraft to familiarize yourself with the controls before trying out 'real' opponents.
League is for leagues. Teams that you can play as you want, with no real rules. Usually teams in League are part of leagues that run set scheduled match ups, but you can play one-off games as well.
Stunty is for crazy people. This is a division made up of teams created on this site, and designed mostly for the amusing death of players. May suit you to a tee. Not for everyone.
Which brings us to the last thing Fumbbl is
3) A Community.
This is a community. Not a drinking-the-koolaid, everyone agrees with each other community, but still a community. You can come just to game, but the Fumbbl experience happens on chat (in-game and IRC) and in the forums. People know each other here. Not everyone knows everyone, but like any workplace, or hangout, or family, there are un-written rules alongside the written ones, people used as scapegoats, people highly respected, groups, sides, outcasts, and everything else you might expect.
How do I fit in?
1) Give a good first impression. You might be a wonderful person, but when you write your first post/blog entry/chat comment that's all the rest of us know about you. Don't make it whiny, don't sound entitled, don't assume you've considered every possibility if it's a strategy issue. "How do I get this stupid thing working?" gives us a different impression from, "Hey guys, I'm new, and having trouble following launch intructions. Can someone give me advice?"
2) Remember this is a world-spanning community. To paraphrase internet nerd hero David Morgan-Marr, "You, and every single person you know, does NOT constitute 'most people'." This applies to expecting Europeans to know American slang, thinking everyone who plays paints their own miniatures, and claiming that "no one thinks of that as a swear" when your team name gets changed by an Admin. There is certainly a place to discuss what you feel is appropriate in censorship, but saying your buddies would not be offended is hardly grounds to claim no one would be. Also remember not everyone is first language English. If you think someone could not possibly have meant what they said, check before freaking out!
3) Act like a guest for a little bit. Jumping into some forum and chat conversations here is akin to joining your girlfriend's father and uncles in their discussion politics the first time you meet them. When coach A makes a comment suggesting one tournament structure is flawed, and coach B jumps on him and tells him to shut up, coach B looks like a jerk. Coach B may be a jerk, but coach A may have been harping on this, in every forum thread, for months, and the general consensus is that he DOES need to shut up about it.
Listen, and discover how things flow, before letting loose.
Ok, that's all nice and generic, but what is this place really like?
It's awesome! It really is. From animated throwing of goblins and halflings in the client, to the fact that spectators to your game can boo and cheer your action. From the fact that my name is a common poll option, to the idea that there is a Troll with 50+ TD. From the constant updates, to the crazy tournaments. Legendary coaches, and random birthday gifts. It's a great place, and once you find your place in it, I'm sure you will agree. Welcome here! Play my Halflings!
Uncle Mac |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2011 - 00:37 |
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Way way better. Like a lot. I would actually like to talk to the person that wrote the second draft... where as I wanted to punch the person that wrote the first. Nice save Mac  |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2011 - 01:04 |
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Hmm.
Something I find helps website usability(though I don't use them myself) is a help video.
It doesn't have to be much, there isn't much to getting started! I think a 2 minute video might help confused newbies more than a wall of text? |
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http://www.calculateyour.tv - an easy way to work out specific team builds.
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2011 - 01:22 |
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| Hitonagashi wrote: | Hmm.
Something I find helps website usability(though I don't use them myself) is a help video.
It doesn't have to be much, there isn't much to getting started! I think a 2 minute video might help confused newbies more than a wall of text? |
Hey look another one who agrees with me. I love when that happens |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2011 - 01:23 |
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I can has personal tutor now?
Jebus guys, I'm all for a n00b guide, but if we have to keep a small degree of difficulty, otherwise we'll be overrun with the mentally disavantaged.
Afterall, if Fouly and Spooney (let alone Dustbunny) can work it out, how hard can it be? |
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pizzamogul
Joined: Jun 13, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2011 - 04:28 |
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| pythrr wrote: | | ...Spooney ... can work it out, how hard can it be? |
I haven't been on IRC much lately. When exactly did Spooney finally manage to work it all out? Shouldn't there be a news item on the front page about this? |
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"Don't expect mercy."
-Woodstock |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2011 - 05:32 |
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| pythrr wrote: | I can has personal tutor now?
Jebus guys, I'm all for a n00b guide, but if we have to keep a small degree of difficulty, otherwise we'll be overrun with the mentally disavantaged.
Afterall, if Fouly and Spooney (let alone Dustbunny) can work it out, how hard can it be? |
If you build it they will come.
Also I take offense at being compared to Spoony and DB... I'm much more like... ok, I can't actually finish this sentence... but I still take offense! |
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