OneEye
Joined: Mar 15, 2007
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 Posted:
Jan 23, 2008 - 09:11 |
 
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Howdy FUMBBLERS.
I've been offline for a few months and i will soon be rejoining the carnage once my internet connection is restored HORRAY!
Anyways in order to re-edumacate myself on all things Blood Bowl i've been reading many of the forums and have noticed 2 things.
The first is the hatred for all things Wood Elf and i just wanted to say it brings a tear to my eye to find a group of people who share my love of dead, squished and mangled woodies!
But secondly what had caught my attention is that there are many posts where coaches mention dwarves being unfairly advantaged and that many people dislike playing them.
Now i have a dwarf team that i found it very difficult to get games for but never thought about it until the last couple of days...
So why are they avoided so heavily? I mean yeah i get the tackle thing puts off dodgy teams but surely its just to compensate for the lack of movement dwarves suffer from.
Just wondering if the more technical guys who understand the game more than i do could provide some enlightenment for me... or just great stories of wood elves they have killed!! |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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Jan 23, 2008 - 09:30 |
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they are usually perceived as boring, because there's not a lot of variety in the game plan they display.
i am not there to judge if it's right or wrong.
For me the thruth is this:
->everyone start with block
->thus, you pick guard at 6 spps
->thus you have plenty of MB at 16 what makes them bashy, thus avoided. |
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Rion
Joined: Oct 24, 2003
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Jan 23, 2008 - 09:36 |
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Have to admit the fact they have two frenzy players, lineman have access to str, and they have armor 9. And the fact they have block and cheap rerolls makes them very secure blockers, so they usually dont suffer turnover in low tr games unlike other teams. |
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MSpanke
Joined: Jun 06, 2006
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Jan 23, 2008 - 09:48 |
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A 2d block with a RR is more effective than a 1d dodge with a RR. Elves that stand next to Dwarves tend to lose. You can effect 6 times the number of blocks than dodges with the odds involved. Veteran coaches here are not afraid to field elves and run circles around slower teams.
As a result rookies won't even touch dwarves (personal experience.) In fact my dwarves have played only other heavy bashers(orc, dwarf, undead, necro, and Chaos). On the flipside, my flings and elves have played dwarves. |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 23, 2008 - 10:50 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | | they are usually perceived as boring, because there's not a lot of variety in the game plan they display. |
Agreed - and it's boring for their coach as much as the opposition. I've long wanted the option of trading in Troll Slayers for 2 more Blitzers, so they can play ball a little more.
Mind you, their predictability is good if you're a solid coach with bad dice... |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Jan 23, 2008 - 10:56 |
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Dwarfs are predictable, present you with the same challenge as the last dwarf coach, often coach dwarfs because they have a dull personality or compensating for a flaw in their play (huge and harsh generalisation). You know what you're going to get and you get no compensation for the predictability.
The fact they are tough to hurt often bugs me too. |
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b4db1o0d
Joined: Apr 18, 2004
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Jan 23, 2008 - 11:00 |
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I think at high TR, unless your dwarf team has lots of statfreaks, dwarves are way underpowered compared to orcs and chaos...
I think also due to placing importance when playing dwarves, coaches tend to take more time. and thus nobody likes having the stuffing beaten out of them by a stuffily slow coach... |
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xcver
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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Jan 23, 2008 - 11:03 |
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| Colin wrote: | | sk8bcn wrote: | | they are usually perceived as boring, because there's not a lot of variety in the game plan they display. |
Agreed - and it's boring for their coach as much as the opposition. I've long wanted the option of trading in Troll Slayers for 2 more Blitzers, so they can play ball a little more.
Mind you, their predictability is good if you're a solid coach with bad dice... |
Would make sense as I don't get at all what Troll Slayers are doing on a Blood Bowl Pitch at all (well except trying to kill stuff of course). |
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Faulcon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 23, 2008 - 11:07 |
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I've seen some monster dwarf teams at high tr that are at least as bad if not worse than equivalent chaos/orc teams (and not relying on excessive stats or doubles). You don't see them as much in ranked because they're less likely to have 3+ dp longbeards there. I mean longbeard takes guard/mb then what? Sure it takes a while for a longbeard to get 3 skills but it's not like they die off in job lots either, if you don't have to worry about getting opponents then dp is a very useful and painful skill for them to take. Grind, bash, kick, and you can reduce most teams pretty handily. |
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Snorri
Joined: Jun 07, 2004
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Jan 23, 2008 - 11:23 |
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Woodies and dwarves aren't too different I think. There are 3 aspects to coaching bb.
1) Survival management
2) Skill management
3) Game tactics.
Woodies only need to worry about 1), skills aren't so crucial and if you manage survival well, you'll always have enough on the park for easy wins.
Dwarves only need to worry about 3). Keeping em alive is a no brainer and for the team, all the positions are adequately skilled before they even get their first game. Most teams usually have to develop a player before they can fill a role.
I personally dont like either much - you miss out on alot of the fun of bb if you only effectively play 1/3 of the game. Dwarves are even easier because you dont have to actually do 3) very well either and yet your team will still grow. Where if woodies do 1) badly, its all over.
As for their potential I think ranked folk underrate them. In long term tourneys with a good coach, they're pretty damn hard to shift from the top spot (SWL). We're just lucky that most of the time our best coaches choose something more challenging. Meanwhile orcs nor chaos have ever won nor come close to it. The only difference in ranked is that dwarf coaches dont get games, whilst orc and chaos coaches do. I suspect you'll notice a difference now we're seeing teams like JackDaniels' dwarves gorge themselves on smacks to pretty much the same effect as wood elf coaches who uber up their team against other elves. |
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OneEye
Joined: Mar 15, 2007
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Jan 23, 2008 - 23:50 |
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| SillySod wrote: | | Dwarfs are predictable |
Aren't every single team in BB predictable as they are built to a certain way of playing?? (I know this isn't true obviously as coaches can play a team any which way they like, but all teams are built around a basic premise such as bashy or dodgy or plain crap! Yes i mean halflings!) but I just don't see how Dorfs are predictable versus other teams such as Wood/High/Dark Elves who have similar structures and play styles.
I guess tho that maybe you mean many other teams have the potential and ability to play other play styles and tactics while the dwarves are really fairly limited. However even then i feel with troll slayers, runners and blitzers they offer lots of options and alternatives.
I mean sure i've only played 4 games with my dorfs (100% may i add he he) but i never seem to be stuck with the same old way of playing... maybe i'll have to review my past games.
Any other thoughts? |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Jan 23, 2008 - 23:53 |
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pm lishi and ask him! |
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OneEye
Joined: Mar 15, 2007
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Jan 23, 2008 - 23:58 |
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| pythrr wrote: | | pm lishi and ask him! |
Ask him what? For a Date? A Banana?  |
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nexusvalhees
Joined: Oct 28, 2005
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Jan 24, 2008 - 04:31 |
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dorfs are booring every other team takes risks the dorf teams game plan pretty much takes risk out of the equation. Block, sure hands, tackle, cheap rr ,and high armor come together to make a very safe game. After a while all dorf teams look alike block tackle guard mb because they start with so many skills they don't have any other good choices |
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Remember folks if you don't go out of your way to kill good players AGING IS YOUR FAULT!!
Last edited by nexusvalhees on %b %24, %2008 - %05:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Jan 24, 2008 - 05:11 |
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A lot of people dislike playing dwarves because they are only comfortable playing games where they can outbash their opponent.
Dwarves are rarely out bashed. |
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