Deluge
Joined: Aug 21, 2014
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 Posted:
Mar 04, 2017 - 02:55 |
 
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What is your philosophy on the "Force end-turn" button?
When I started playing on fumbbl I was so pleased with it being there. I thought it was an amazingly human and considerate touch to leave it up to the individual if he wanted to end the opponent's turn, should he go over time, instead of the game simply ending the turn automaticly. I felt so relaxed and at home in a friendly environment playing on fumbbl.
That wasn't the case in the last few weeks when I experienced my first two games where my opponent ended my turn early. And I found that it REALLY pissed me off. That someone would be in SO much of a rush that he felt he HAD to end my turn and couldn't possibly let me finish my last few moves in a hurried 20 secs.
Or that he was SO obsessed with winning that he would take ANY advantage he could.
If you're playing a game of chess with a stranger, would you stare at the chess clock and shout "TIMES UP YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE A MOVE" when the 4 minutes is up?
I understand that if you're in a serious tournament and every aspect of the rules has to be taken into account that all that matters is winning. But when you're playing random games in the Blackbox, is it really THAT important to win that you would end someone's turn seconds before they're finished?
In my mind there's a time and a place for for it, if someone is taking 6 minutes for EVERY turn, no matter how simple, I would end their turn too. But if you've put them in a really hard spot and they go 20 seconds over time, should you really not cut them any slack?
So what is your take on it? How often do you end people's turns and how do you feel/react when people ends your turn?
And yes, I know that everyone is allowed by the rules to end the turn when ever they want to. I'm not asking about the rules though, I'm asking about etiquette and moral. |
Last edited by Deluge on %b %04, %2017 - %05:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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MonkeyMan576
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
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Mar 04, 2017 - 03:18 |
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If the other player indicates he is going to be back with a "BRB" or an explanation, a force end turn is button abuse. If the other player is constistantly going over the 4 minute limit, then the end turn is okay if you give a warning. |
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Dach
Joined: Dec 25, 2015
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Mar 04, 2017 - 03:27 |
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I will mostly let it go until it's been more than 4 turn in a row that went past the timer. |
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D_Arquebus
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 04, 2017 - 04:37 |
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| Deluge wrote: |
By the way, keep in mind that your opponent cannot see how much time he has left in his turn, he can only know he has taken too long when you're able to force his turn to end. If sticking to the 4 minute time window was THAT crucial to a game of Fumbbl BB, wouldn't there be a turn timer?
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Which would be why there is a timer...
It's not so much about trying to win, as about the opponent having the courtesy not to drag out the game overlong.
I'll normally give a warning to anyone who is going over. Haven't needed to do more.
But especially when some coaches are smashing your team off the pitch and STILL taking 4 mins to do there turn. Rubbish! |
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Deluge
Joined: Aug 21, 2014
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Mar 04, 2017 - 04:48 |
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| D_Arquebus wrote: |
Which would be why there is a timer... |
There is a timer from the start of the game, but there is no timer from the start of my turn. I have no way of knowing that I only have 20 seconds left of my 4 minute turn other than looking at the match clock at the start of every turn and doing the math from there when ever I feel my turn is taking a long time.
I totally agree that players should have the courtesy not to drag the game out, but in my mind that translates to: "hurry the hell up when you see you've spent more than 4 minutes. If you don't I will start ending your turn"
| D_Arquebus wrote: | | But especially when some coaches are smashing your team off the pitch and STILL taking 4 mins to do there turn. Rubbish! |
Exactly! When you can see that your opponent is doing really simple things that shouldn't take 4 minutes, then it can be really annoying. But if your opponent has to dodge around and handle the ball from a really tough situation, letting him go a bit over the time limit just seems like the nice thing to do.
How do you feel about the argument of "I put you in such a tough situation that you couldn't complete your turn in 4 minutes. So I am ending your turn early because I want the reward of putting you into a tough situation"?
In other words: the turn timer is a direct tool of the game. If I can put you into a situation that you can't get out of in the allowed 4 minutes, I should use that as a tactic to cause a "turnover" |
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D_Arquebus
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 04, 2017 - 05:00 |
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The Turn Timer is to the immediate left of the game marker, when teams are not setting up. That is, when a turn is active...
I wouldn't use the 4 min turn timer like that. But some people might. You cannot and will not be able to enforce "etiquette" rules on such players.
So practice playing faster, even in the tough turns.  |
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paradocks
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
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Mar 04, 2017 - 05:42 |
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Have never used the timeout feature myself, but frequently have had it done on me the very second i go over 4mins, so i can't complete my final move of picking the ball up or blitzing the ball carrier etc.. it's pretty lame but those coaches are reasonably common |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Mar 04, 2017 - 05:49 |
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I think its particularly in a tournament situation when its lame. Lets face it， when someone clicks the end turn button， theybare trying to get an advantage because they arent good enough to win anyway. |
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Deluge
Joined: Aug 21, 2014
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Mar 04, 2017 - 05:54 |
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| D_Arquebus wrote: | | The Turn Timer is to the immediate left of the game marker, when teams are not setting up. That is, when a turn is active... |
I have literally never noticed that. What a strange choice to put the turn counter in the header of the window. Oh well, but I still think it's a dick move to end the turn early when you can obviously see that your opponent is seconds away from finishing his turn.
| grod wrote: | | I think its particularly in a tournament situation when its lame. Lets face it， when someone clicks the end turn button， theybare trying to get an advantage because they arent good enough to win anyway. |
Which to me sounds like people are abusing their "power" more than using it with care. When I play a game of blood bowl, I want to play a tactical turn based game against another person's intellect. I don't want to win because he ran out of time, I want to win because I was better than him. Sometimes you win on pure luck, but in my opinion that happens fairly rarely.
Shouldn't the "force end turn" button make the turn end in exactly 20 seconds, instead of after the current move? So you can get a flash pop-up warning saying "20 secs left" and you can at least try to finish your turn, instead of getting surprised by your opponents impatience and be horribly punished.
Heck for all I care, let the opponent click the "Force end turn" button at the 3 mins 40 sec mark, so the turns ends at exactly the "allowed" 4 minutes. But this way I'll know I'm playing against an impatient 10-year-old and my turn is about to end.[/quote] |
Last edited by Deluge on %b %04, %2017 - %06:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Mar 04, 2017 - 06:04 |
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Don't take 4 minutes and you won't have this problem. |
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Deluge
Joined: Aug 21, 2014
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Mar 04, 2017 - 06:05 |
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What is your philosophy on the "Force end-turn" button?
So what is your take on it? How often do you end people's turns and how do you feel/react when people ends your turn?
| licker wrote: | | Don't take 4 minutes and you won't have this problem. |
Thank you for your detailed and enlightening response. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Mar 04, 2017 - 06:12 |
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Well it is that simple.
My philosophy is don't take 4m on your turns and you won't have any problems with getting timed out.
Personally I don't time people out, but it's part of the rules of the site, so it simply is what it is. |
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tussock
Joined: May 29, 2011
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Mar 04, 2017 - 06:21 |
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In ranked, blackbox, and official tournament games, you get four minutes to play each turn. When you've had four minutes since the last turn end, your opponent gets to declare at any point that your currently moving player is your last action. That's the rules.
Playing a game by the rules of the game you just agreed to play is not rude.
Rude is calling people out in public about following the rules and accusing them of being all sorts of stuff just because you hadn't finished your turn in the designated time. Just so you know.
PS: Most people here are nice and won't time you out, at least not the first time. But, like, if you're going long in your turns they may not even have that long to finish the game. You are asking other people to be patient with you, which is fine, but not everyone is going to be up for that.
Not to worry, we all got quicker with our turns over time, and less stressed about going over. What I try to do is end my own turn without moving other players and apologise. Though not to the point of taking extra CPOMB hits. Sometimes I gotta keep dodging folks, and a sensible CPOMB coach will time me out to stop that, because it's basically cheating. |
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Deluge
Joined: Aug 21, 2014
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Mar 04, 2017 - 06:47 |
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| tussock wrote: | In ranked, blackbox, and official tournament games, you get four minutes to play each turn. When you've had four minutes since the last turn end, your opponent gets to declare at any point that your currently moving player is your last action. That's the rules.
Playing a game by the rules of the game you just agreed to play is not rude. |
The rules are that the opponent is allowed to finish the turn early, not obligated or in any way forced to. It is a choice that player has to make in the given situation. Sometimes ending the turn is completely understandable, sometimes it is just downright unnecessary and (imo) rude.
It also says in the rules that you have to set aside 90 minutes for a game of fumbbl. You really have to play slowly to go beyond 90 minutes and in doing so you will probably pass the 4 minute turn timer at least a few times (not necessarily, but probably).
| tussock wrote: | | Rude is calling people out in public about following the rules and accusing them of being all sorts of stuff just because you hadn't finished your turn in the designated time. |
I would call that being mean or hurtful, but let's not split hairs. What I mean to call ending the turn 20 seconds before your opponent would otherwise have, is unsportsmanlike and sly. When you're not doing it because you don't have enough time to finish the game at this pace, but you're doing it to gain an advantage within the game.
To me that feels like abusing the system.
| tussock wrote: | What I try to do is end my own turn without moving other players and apologise. Though not to the point of taking extra CPOMB hits. Sometimes I gotta keep dodging folks, and a sensible CPOMB coach will time me out to stop that, because it's basically cheating.  |
What do you mean? |
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ramchop
Joined: Oct 12, 2013
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I certainly have never timed someone else out. I don't recall ever having been timed out.
But I have gone over 4 min plenty of times. Generally if I see a turn is going to take some thought, I'll say something like "hmm, this is going to take some thought". Most often the response will be "No worries take your time"
I don't think it's good luck that I've never been timed out. Maybe if I'm playing a silent type, I'll subconsciously play quicker. If you're chatting to the opponent during your own turn it will obviously take from your turn time. I have had a grumpy sod say "Let's just get this over with", at which point the chatting stops, some enjoyment is sucked out of the game, and you proceed with pace.
If I'm up against a slower coach, I will not issue a timeout warning. But I may ask nicely for him to pick up the pace a bit.
Play nice. Be aware when others aren't. And get through to play the next, nicer, coach.
In some Leagues, timing out is banned. Here you will learn patience.
yes, I think timing out is a dick move |
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