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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 13:17 Reply with quote Back to top

CAB wrote:
Garion wrote:
yeah I agree, WI is a stupid rule, it shouldn't exist. Maybe they designed it this way to encourage HMP use. Is HMP a thing still? my physical copy hasn't arrived yet and I don't have my "digital copy" Cool in front of me.


HMP is still in the rules and function pretty much the same. It you get HMP as a random skill it probably is just fine but as a selected skill not so much.

But if the rules work as "intended" and not as written then rolling a random passing skill just got pointless as there are too many bad skills on it.


yeah for sure. My initial read through just made me think passing is even more redundant than it was. Passing skills have always been largely useless unless they are a discounted starting skill.

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Niessuh



Joined: Dec 11, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 13:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
Niessuh wrote:
Garion wrote:
C0ddlefish wrote:
Break tackle won't be great on a Bloater - gets you to Ag3 dodging - meh!


yeah break tackle wont be taken, you'd take 2 heads on a Pestigor, and bloaters have no room for a luxury skill like that now.


I mean, break tackle + 2 heads - leads to 1+ dodging stars


Aye, sounds nice, but because of draft rules i just don't see this being a thing. People have to be much more conservative with their skill selection now. luxury players are a thing of the past.


This is why the cheap rotters are useful - they allow more morey to keep veteran bloaters
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 14:21 Reply with quote Back to top

At redraft with you can probably get to Beast, 4 Warriors, 3 or 4 Pestigors and rotters to fill out the 11 and have room for 3 or 4 to edrafts with 1/2 skills each
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 14:29 Reply with quote Back to top

yup, I'd probs keep 1 rotter with DP SG over a pestigor too.

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Niessuh



Joined: Dec 11, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 15:04 Reply with quote Back to top

well I was talking about playing with no warriors no beast, hence the "running team" idea with four pestigor "elf" stars Wink

will see how it works
J_13



Joined: Sep 08, 2020

Post   Posted: Nov 22, 2020 - 14:26 Reply with quote Back to top

One quick question. Does WIP cause turnover? Does IP cause a turnover? By watching the video, I understand that only a Fumbel cause turnover (or an interception).

If not, even though WIP results can be a disaster, you might have still a chance to get/protect the ball. If the video is wrong and the manual is right (so there is only one change to get WIP(we will need a proper FAQ for this)), I don't really see a big nerf on passing...
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 22, 2020 - 14:44 Reply with quote Back to top

The ball ending in the dirt and not in the hands of a player on the active team still causes a Turnover.

Fumble just has the extra it always causes a Turnover even if someone catches the fumbled ball.
J_13



Joined: Sep 08, 2020

Post   Posted: Nov 22, 2020 - 14:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, thanks. By what is said in the video it was not really clear. But if that sentence is written in the rules, there is no possible mistake.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 22, 2020 - 15:32 Reply with quote Back to top

J_13 wrote:
One quick question. Does WIP cause turnover? Does IP cause a turnover? By watching the video, I understand that only a Fumbel cause turnover (or an interception).

If not, even though WIP results can be a disaster, you might have still a chance to get/protect the ball. If the video is wrong and the manual is right (so there is only one change to get WIP(we will need a proper FAQ for this)), I don't really see a big nerf on passing...


One of the big thing is that you get more negative modifiers now than you did before. So the chance to throw a "Wildly Inaccurate" pass is much greater than you fumbled the ball in BB2016 rules.

In BB2016 you fumble the ball only on a natural "1" while throwing a quick and short pass and 1-2 on a long pass and 1-3 on a long bomb.

In BB2020 you only fumble on a natural "1" but you throw a WI on 2 on a short pass, 2-3 on long pass and 2-4 on a long bomb.

So this means it is way more problematic to throw in BB2020 as WI result almost always is worse than a fumble.
Willownen



Joined: Aug 26, 2018

Post   Posted: Nov 22, 2020 - 15:49 Reply with quote Back to top

J_13 wrote:
One quick question. Does WIP cause turnover? Does IP cause a turnover? By watching the video, I understand that only a Fumbel cause turnover (or an interception).

If not, even though WIP results can be a disaster, you might have still a chance to get/protect the ball. If the video is wrong and the manual is right (so there is only one change to get WIP(we will need a proper FAQ for this)), I don't really see a big nerf on passing...


According to the rulebook, a ball not in the hands of your player after a Pass action ends the turn. Fumbled pass ends it no matter what.

But both the recent video and the designer interview are not clear on this, and seem to imply that that isn't the case.
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 22, 2020 - 16:10 Reply with quote Back to top

In my opinion, both the recent video and the designer interview underline the chance of having no turnover because a player of active team may catch the ball after an inaccurate (of wildly inaccurate) pass. But, even if this case will sometimes occur, it will remain rare.

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J_13



Joined: Sep 08, 2020

Post   Posted: Nov 22, 2020 - 16:23 Reply with quote Back to top

I haven’t seen the interview. Is there any link where I can watch it?

I though that if only a fumble caused a turnover, WIP will make a bit of sense. But it appears to be clear in the rule book. What I don’t understand is why this is not said in the video(or in that interview).
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 22, 2020 - 16:36 Reply with quote Back to top

J_13 wrote:
I haven’t seen the interview. Is there any link where I can watch it?

I though that if only a fumble caused a turnover, WIP will make a bit of sense. But it appears to be clear in the rule book. What I don’t understand is why this is not said in the video(or in that interview).


The passing video also clearly lay out what happens if the pass does not end up in the hands of any active player, it is a turnover.

The difference with a fumble is that it is a turnover even if the ball end up in the hands of an active player after the ball is dropped.
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 22, 2020 - 17:32 Reply with quote Back to top

J_13 wrote:
I haven’t seen the interview. Is there any link where I can watch it?

(...)


There it is : https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/09/building-a-better-blood-bowl/

(I suppose this isn't forbidden to link that here but sorry if it is)

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Heroic_Tackle



Joined: Nov 05, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 22, 2020 - 19:21 Reply with quote Back to top

They should have made passing skills reeeeally cheap, compared to other skills. Even cheaper than the random roll.
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