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Poll
Would you like to split the Box division in two group (SuperStar and Legend) and others?
Yes would be great!
7%
 7%  [ 5 ]
I do not have any opinion
7%
 7%  [ 5 ]
No! I Like the Box as it is.
85%
 85%  [ 60 ]
Total Votes : 70


koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 14:30 Reply with quote Back to top

jdm wrote:
koadah wrote:


145 Club FTW! Mr. Green


koadah, that's a link to the old 145 club, the new one is here.


Thanks Smile

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[SL] Old World Rumbble - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 14:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Joost wrote:
I'm curious: is that really such a big problem? I can think of one coach in he Box that valued cas over winning, and one that will bend any rule to his advantage in the match making system in order to pounce on new teams / coaches with his killers. The vast majority seem to play to win all comers. Or are we afraid this might change if the box scheduler would change? Would so many people actively lose games to lower their CR, so they meet less good coaches in their next game? Or am I misunderstanding something?


Its not so much that they value cas over winning, its that they decide that the way they are going to try to win is through cas. It may seem like a subtle difference, but it exists. So an extreme example might the coaches who would take mighty blow/claw/piling on during crp (before block). They absolutely might try to win, but the only way they do it is by killing.

If you play too many of such teams as a new player, that is going to be a very bad experience. Those teams will naturally have a lower win rate than teams that use bash as merely one tool among many, and will adapt during games. By having lower win rates, they will be more likely to play those newer players.

Muff2n wrote:
@Nelphine. It is a fair point that BB is different in that your previous games impact your current game. And a nod to explicitly pairing new coaches with new coaches would be a good thing.

But learning how to deal with the 'ignore the ball and kill' coaches is part of learning the game. In starcraft I lost countless times to protoss proxy gate, until my marine and SCV micro improved. The fact is that you have to have a certain level of skill to be able to play the game properly. And similarly in BB there's only so much hand holding that you can do in the 'competitive-comes-with-a-health-warning' scheduler.


The difference is that in starcraft, ALL you do is lose. Protoss proxy gate doesn't cause you to, say, only start with 8 scvs the next match. With the pure kill teams (which are not NEARLY as prevalent as during CRP, and so arguably may not matter, even if they exist and its important to be aware of), you can literally wreck the opposing team, and in starcraft terms, do the equivalent of making you start the next game with only 8 scvs.
Joost



Joined: Mar 17, 2014

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 19:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Nelphine wrote:


Its not so much that they value cas over winning, its that they decide that the way they are going to try to win is through cas. It may seem like a subtle difference, but it exists. So an extreme example might the coaches who would take mighty blow/claw/piling on during crp (before block). They absolutely might try to win, but the only way they do it is by killing.


I can understand that this is not desirable, and in fact am happy that that combo is out of the game. But I brought it up in the context of match making based on CR (as a proxy for skill). I doubt that these types of coaches would deliberately lose to lower their CR, in order to prey on new coaches. Which is what I thought to be Christer's main objection against CR matching. I think new coaches will appreciate going up against other, less experienced players. Just as very good players might appreciate meeting other very good players more often. I don't really see a downside to such a system. I agree you could game the system by losing on purpose and meeting less good players, but I just don't see it happen unless someone is in it for the kills only.
argos_72



Joined: Mar 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 28, 2021 - 22:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:


On its own, this isn't necessarily a problem because you could argue that these types of coaches will end up facing each-other and everyone will be happy. However, the core issue is that this ends up with less experienced coaches (lower CR) playing in this shark infested water which is not at all a fun experience for these coaches.


Thanks for answering Christer.
I agree with you that the population of this site does not allow this type of split. The poll started from the hypothesis to have a sufficient number of players naturally.

Neverthless for players with average skill level playing into the Box is often painfull
The Box Matchmaking algorithm after one team plays 16 games can associated it to one with +25% TV which for a TV 1500 can mean +375TV of difference.
Inducements does not compensate completely this. My opinion of course.
Anyway when TV difference is greater than 350 the match is "doped" and often is the chaos , casualties and so on at unnecessary level which it is not nice experience if you lose because the fireball kill 4 persons or because 4 players are killed by an army of CLAWMB players...

So maybe it is not possible to separate the Box in two group because the number of people are not enough. Fine. But maybe review the matchmaking algorithm in order to get more "balanced" matches would be suitable.

Matches between teams with TV differences greater than 400 or with too big experience gaps between coach ( eg: Legend vs Emerging Star or a Player who played 2000 matches vs a player who played 100 matches ) in my opinion should be avoided in the Box. It is not funny for everybody.
I would prefer to play less often but to have more balanced matches than have the possibility to play more games per days but a lot of these unbalanced.

Someone can say " i like to play some easy match" but the results is that people that do not like to activate one race only and like to activates multiple races and /or do not make skill bloat over only one team simply risk to be disappointed and will abandon the box .

The game is very randomic already and very variable. In my opinion trying to have more balanced matches is better for everybody.

Maybe with BB2020 a sort of balancing will be caused by the mandatory redraft ot teams. Let's see.
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 28, 2021 - 23:05 Reply with quote Back to top

argos_72 wrote:
Maybe with BB2020 a sort of balancing will be caused by the mandatory redraft ot teams. Let's see.


If anything, the mandatory redraft will make the minmaxers shine even more compared to the regular folks who don't care much about numbers. The system can be micro-managed just the same, if not more, than the no-tv-cap one, imho.

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Last edited by JanMattys on Jan 29, 2021 - 12:05; edited 1 time in total
Eki



Joined: May 11, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 29, 2021 - 00:23 Reply with quote Back to top

bb2020 is close. reset CR. all players 150
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 29, 2021 - 06:52 Reply with quote Back to top

no

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