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Poll
Do you agree with most of the points indicated in this thread?
yes
5%
 5%  [ 9 ]
No
65%
 65%  [ 101 ]
I don't care: i will play BB whatever be the rules
24%
 24%  [ 38 ]
I will abandon BB2020 in any case
3%
 3%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 154


JohnDaker



Joined: Aug 01, 2014

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2021 - 18:37 Reply with quote Back to top

1) Impact of these already limited in bb2020, let's see if it enough.

2) Isn't meteo change natural? could maybe limit things like going blizzard to sweltering heat. (but add complexity) There is also a new inducement for a weather wizard no? (not sure if useful)

3) it's not because a team has more fans that they will automatically show up every time.

4) isn't it one of the most critical part of blood bowl? When you make an action there is always a chance to succeed and a chance to fail.

5) This does not represent the players putting back the ball in play, it represents the crowd throwing back the ball in play.

6) the first roll is to see where the ball is going to land compare to where the kicker was trying to aim for. (so the ball is not going backward in the air)
The second roll... have you ever seen a football fall?

7) that one... can't argue much. Maybe it could represent a ball that has been deflected, but then it should only happen if the thrower is in a tackle zone .
Maybe the throw-in template could be used instead for the ball to still go forward? but that could become complex.

8 ) BB7s for when you want shorter games.

9) Not a bad idea indeed. (but making rules more complex, so worth it?)

10) don't start the game with 11 players, that's why a team can have 16 players

11) but because of the season, there might be more incentives to keep an injured players instead of replacing as soon as you can, knowing that it won't be forever either.

Again "6 is always a success and 1 is always a fail" is one of the most important feature of the game. It is not a "serious" game, it is a caricature.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2021 - 18:47 Reply with quote Back to top

argos_72 wrote:
the big point for me is the 6 faced dices which is too low.
Players with AG5 dodge 2+ indipendently if there is no or 1 tackle zone to dodge to. Several other exmples can be done.
This in my opinion is a limitation of the game. Introducing the 8-face dice in spite of the 6 face dice should be very easy. Someone can explain me why should be wrong replace the 6 face dice ith 8 face dice? I miss for sure some important reasons


The real answer is "because people like it".

On tabletop you are free to exchange a D8 for a D6.
On Fumbbl there is a limit to the number of options can realisticly be implemented.

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argos_72



Joined: Mar 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2021 - 22:02 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
argos_72 wrote:
the big point for me is the 6 faced dices which is too low.
Players with AG5 dodge 2+ indipendently if there is no or 1 tackle zone to dodge to. Several other exmples can be done.
This in my opinion is a limitation of the game. Introducing the 8-face dice in spite of the 6 face dice should be very easy. Someone can explain me why should be wrong replace the 6 face dice ith 8 face dice? I miss for sure some important reasons


The real answer is "because people like it".


if people like it why do we need BB2020?

GW did a lot of changes in BB2020 they have introduced a lot of chaos with some events like widely inaccurate.
I am just telling "let's reduce little bit the chaos". Just this

then if people like to play game where random event are 50% of the key of success ok.
I was thinking this now because in any case in some days we will migrate on BB2020. It is a big change with respect BB2016. So why not to make some small adjustements.
BlockBadger



Joined: Jan 21, 2021

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2021 - 23:08 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
If anything, the randomness has been reduced too much already.

A large part of the game is planning for and dealing with bad luck.

Maybe you need to up your game.


Yeah I really like the changes to make Bad/Good kick off results way less punishing. Having Throw a rock gone is so great, no more epic stories ending on such a uninteresting note.
argos_72



Joined: Mar 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2021 - 23:37 Reply with quote Back to top

it is funny because i discussed with at least 4 people who agreed with the fact this game should be improved but only 3 voted yes.
so please if you share at least 51% of the proposed changes would be nice to vote "yes".
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 07, 2021 - 00:08 Reply with quote Back to top

argos_72 wrote:
it is funny because i discussed with at least 4 people who agreed with the fact this game should be improved but only 3 voted yes.
so please if you share at least 51% of the proposed changes would be nice to vote "yes".


Your changes do NOT improve the game. They just make it closer to the way that you would like it.

argos_72 wrote:
...then if people like to play game where random event are 50% of the key of success ok.


If you think 50% then you need to understand the game better.
Then, the random events wouldn't look so bad.

I am sure that a lot of people would like some reduction in randomness. But not this much.
This would make the game boring IMO.

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argos_72



Joined: Mar 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 07, 2021 - 00:38 Reply with quote Back to top

There is a way in the middle between crazy game and boring game
I m NOT proposing to abolish random events.
Otherwise I will ask to abolish the dice.
I m proposing a more balanced game
I would like that coach’ ability will be the predominant factor in the victory . Like in several sports or game where the more you train yourself the more chance you have to win.
I think this is common sense
There is not a simple equation : random is fun , non random is boring
argos_72



Joined: Mar 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 07, 2021 - 00:44 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
argos_72 wrote:
it is funny because i discussed with at least 4 people who agreed with the fact this game should be improved but only 3 voted yes.
so please if you share at least 51% of the proposed changes would be nice to vote "yes".


I am sure that a lot of people would like some reduction in randomness. But not this much.
This would make the game boring IMO.


Where are these people ?
I have maiden a proposal as a start discussion
Answers is always no no no
Total closure
this means the majority of BB players deserves these (bad IMO) rules . That’s it.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 07, 2021 - 01:40 Reply with quote Back to top

I dislike almost all of your changes. I play BB because it is highly random. I think bb2020 has done a really good job of reducing the most extreme random effects, while still leaving a large amount of randomness in the game.
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 07, 2021 - 04:16 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with Nelphine. The randomness of the game is already low enough for me. In fact I would have kept either BB16 or CRP over the new version.

Currently, the coach who reduces risk as much as possible will win the most games. that makes sense to me. The best coaches do exactly that and then take minimal risks or the risks at the right moments.

Bring more mayhem. Please!
Uber



Joined: Mar 22, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 07, 2021 - 07:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Even if your proposal made sense, it's not as if anyone could actually implement it. FUMBBL follows the official ruleset and GW just does random rule changes however they see fit. What little influence we have over GW won't be used to push another major overhaul when we didn't even get to play with BB2020 yet.

I also have my reservations with the new rules, but I'm willing to at least try them for a while before campaigning for an overhaul.

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C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Mar 07, 2021 - 08:39 Reply with quote Back to top

BlockBadger wrote:
You seen the BB54/quarters idea? Does away with weather, kickoff table, all 4 drives are 5 offence/4 defence turns, play order A,B,B,A.

Simple, balanced and fast.

https://bbtactics.com/bb54/

Roll for cheerleaders and coaches at the start of each half only, or totally remove them.


To quote Graeme Taylor "Do I not like that!"

If passing is broken, then fix that. Don't change the entire structure of the game so you potentially have 2 risk free passing turns.

The whole thing seems to really be "I don't like stalling" make it really really hard for Slow teams to score, let alone stall
neubau



Joined: Nov 12, 2016

Post   Posted: Mar 07, 2021 - 10:20 Reply with quote Back to top

the school of dakka has its first disciple Laughing

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boeufmironton



Joined: Feb 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Mar 07, 2021 - 11:28 Reply with quote Back to top

i think i commited some kind of post like that where i was young...
crounch crounch crounch
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 07, 2021 - 11:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Not just no but HELLS NO. You do not understand the game.

|It is based on AMERICAN FOOTBALL. And an American FOOTBALL can ABSOLUTELY be KICKED OFF and when it hits the ground it can ABSOLUTELY bounce BACKWARDS by 1d6 due to the shape and nature of the ball. It can also be pushed by a gust of WIND backwards in the air.
The whole point is that the Ball does not just go to exactly where you want it to go for multiple reasons.

The crowd could be full of ANYBODY or ANYTHING from a Fantasy Setting. Anybody could be throwing it in. An Ogre could have got it and randomly threw it anywhere, And Elf Thrower could have got it and chucked it anywhere. Someone in the crowd could have had a Bazzooka and sht it back into the game.

It is FANTASY FOOTBALL. The results account for FANTASY and for (AMERICAN) FOOTBALL and random elements that could occur during the game.
Plus the Crazy GONZO Randomness is for FUN!!!
Go play CHESS with these DULL and BORING ideas,

The POINT of the game is (Much like Fantasy Games) a tiny Goblin could slay an Ogre in 1 blow IF he gets lucky enough with a Natural 20 vs a Natural 1 from the Ogre. And the DM has the pleasure of imagining how the Goblin's Arrow had a Spell on it or Curse and the Ogre did something really stupid that made himself more vulnerable than normal and maybe he fell on a Sword or something or a Landmine etc.
You know FUN.
Or maybe you don't know. idk.
Go take a Math Class. Or something and have YOUR fun doing equations or something.

Go play Chess where when Queen takes Pawn she always Wins and when Pawn takes whoever he always Wins.
I will stick to Blood Bowl where a ROOKIE Orc Lineman can make a -2 Duce Block against a LEGEND Bull Centaur with Block and Dodge who is holding the ball and about to score the next turn to beat you in a FUMBBL CUP Tournament Game and beat you and RANDOMLY ROLL 2 POWS.
The ENTIRE CROWND ROARED!!!

That Blitz was my ONLY OPTION to force an OVERTIME in a game where I was totally outclassed with both my team and my skill level at the time. I had played the best possible game against a Legendary team here and 1 random Blitz was my only hope to stay Alive.
Not only did I roll 2 POWs but that Legend Bull Centaur RIP'd and the Apoth FAILED and Overtime was Forced. Where in OT I killed 4 more Players on that team including the Other Legend Bull Centaur and then rolled through 4 or 5 more Rounds of that FUMBBL Cup.

And snatching VICTORY from the jaws of DEFEAT like that was 1 of the most thrilling moments of my LIFE and I have lived a very good one as compared to most people. And IF FUMBBL had a News Media that game would be a Legendary Moment the whole site knew about as 1 of the biggest upsets in our history. Much like there are sure to be some Major Upsets next week here in the USA during the NCAA Basketball Tournament... because SOMETIMES the random team of NOBODIES defeats the team with the Future NBA Superstars because on some RANDOM LUCKY Event during a the game.

So NO. None of your ideas was GOOD or makes the game BETTER.
Your kid Brother is SOPPOSED to be able to kick you butt every now and then in this game just because he rolled more 6's and you rolled too many 1's.
The NOBODY in this game gets to beat KASPOROV every now and then. That is WHY it is FUN.
Your suggestions show that you just do not get it.
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