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neuro_



Joined: Aug 15, 2020

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 04:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Reworked Skills
This overhaul for BB2020 is one of the ways my TT friends and I play Second Season. These changes have evolved (and are still changing) over a couple of seasons of our own and make semi-eternal leagues more reasonably balanced and a lot more fun (at least for us). Feel free to drop questions and/or CC, or to use any part of these rules yourself Smile

Note on STAT contests: for MA and ST, contests are simply roll 2d6 + Stat. For AG, PA or AV, roll 2d6 and take away the value- i.e. an elven lineman contesting AG rolls 2d6, gets a "9" and takes 2, getting 7, while a Big Un would have got a result of 5.

General (12)
Block- as is
Dirty Player- as is
Tackle- as is
Frenzy- as is
Wrestle- as is
Dauntless- as is, and provides a RR for Disturbing Presence (see later).
Kick- as is
Pro- as is, except roll as soon as this player is activated
Shadowing- same trigger; contest MA on 2d6. A tie or Shadower win means they can be followed.
Sure Hands- RR one failed Catch or Pickup roll per turn.
Safe Pair Of Hands- as is, and this player is immune to Strip Ball.
Strip Ball- as is but only countered by SPoH, not Sure Hands.

Agility (12)
Dodge- as is
Defensive- as is
Jump Up- as is
Leap- as is
Sneaky Git- as is
Sidestep- as Sidestep + old Fend
Feint- Once per turn, when this player gets Marked, they may contest AG (2d6) with the opposing player. If they tie or win, they may move 1 square away out of contact May not be used if holding the ball.
Sprint- as is, and combined with old Sure Feet.
Sure Feet- RR one failed Jump, Leap, Jump Up or Right Stuff roll per turn.
Diving Tackle- as is, and combined with Arm Bar.
Diving Catch- +1 to all catch and interference attempts. This player can attempt to interfere with Passes if they are adjacent to a usually eligible square.
Roll- if this player Falls Over (failed TTM, dodge, GFI etc) or is Tackled down in a Block, they suffer no AV roll (unless Piled On, latter case). "Tackled down" means only when Tackle is used to counter Dodge.

Strength (11)
Mighty Blow- as is
Stand Firm- as is
Guard- as is
Juggernaut- as is
Grab- as is, and players cannot use Block defensively against this player. Not during a Blitz.
Break Tackle- once per turn, add 1/2/3 to a dodge roll according to: ST 3 or less/ST 4/ST 5 or more.
Barge- as part of a Move action, contest ST(2d6) with one Marked enemy to Push them one square on a tie or win. Once per turn.
Pile On- Once per team per turn, place this player Prone to RR the Armour Roll of a player they've Knocked Down.
Brawler- Once per turn, RR any amount of Block dice that aren't "Attacker Down" in one set of block dice.
Multiple Block- as is, but each enemy only gets +1 ST. May be used during a Blitz but this ends the player's movement.
Thick Skull- -1 from all Injury and Casualty rolls, and +1 to KO recovery rolls.
---

Passing (10)
We use slightly different Pass rules:
+1 for Quick, -1 for Long, -3 for Long Bomb.
a Fumble is a modified value of less than 1. A 1, natural or otherwise, could be a success if the target is 1+. A Long Bomb Completion grants 2SPP.

Leader- as is
Pass- as is
On The Ball- as is
Nerves Of Steel- as is, and reduce Pickup modifier by one from being Marked (i.e. two zones counts as 1).
Running Pass- old Dump Off + Handoffs using DO, and a Completion doesn't end their action.
Safe Pass- Keep hold of fumbled Passes, and Passes can't be interfered with.
Tight Spin- Passes scatter half as many tiles, rounding down (i.e. Inaccurate scatters once).
Fake Out- may make a free Quick Pass or Handoff action (doesn't count as your turn's Pass/Handoff).
Hail Mary- as is, except the ball remains airborne until the end of your next activation or Turnover. The ball is out of play until those conditions are met.
Pick Me Up- as is (see Norse beerpigs), and can recover players with lost TZs also on a 5+. Must have a Tacklezone to use this skill.
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We have been stumped trying to create 2 new Passing skills, even under the wider focus of "team management". But it's only Passing, after all. Wink

Mutation (11)
Claws- as is
Horns- as is
Two Heads- +1 to dodges into Unmarked squares.
Tentacles- as is; contest ST(2d6).
Prehensile Tail- as is, and +1 to Pickups.
Disturbing Presence- as is, and combined with old Foul Appearance. FA component works against Fouls too.
Very Long Legs- +2 to Jump, Leap and Interference rolls.
Iron Hard Skin- nothing may modify AV rolls against this player.
Venomous- exactly like "Pile On" but for Injury rolls. May use both at once.
Spiky (very new)- if an enemy Marks this player they are immediately Stabbed. Once per turn.
Well Hoof'd- automatically pass the first GFI roll each turn.
---

Traits and Extraordinaries (modified only)
Swarming- d3+1 rather than d3.
Stab- works with Mighty Blow, Frenzy, Multiple Block, and Pro. Also grants SPP for Casualties caused. Frenzy means Stab again if you fail, Pro allows for a re-roll.
Regeneration- happens before Apothecary usage.
Projectile Vomit- may target any player within 2 squares; reduce the target's AV by 1 to a minimum of 8+.
Plague Ridden- may target any player with ST 4 or less. Either functions as is, or: dead player gets -1 MA, -1 AG, loses all levels, gains Decay and Regeneration, and access to Mutaions as Primaries. They must count as a non Big Guy positional.
Raise Dead- as Plague Ridden, but can only target ST 3 or less players. The target only gets Regeneration, -1 MA and -1 AG. They must count as a non Big Guy positional.

In terms of balance, we wanted to encourage interesting builds. All of the new (and changed) skills were compared against Block/Dodge/Guard etc- not to be as good as them, but to encourage teams not to be bland copies of BlodgeGuard + Mighty Blow/ Claw. On top of this I personally wanted teams to be able to play differently than how they are "built" to be if that was the coach's wish. Versatility.


Last edited by neuro_ on Jul 04, 2022 - 00:28; edited 10 times in total
neuro_



Joined: Aug 15, 2020

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 04:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Rosters
These modified rosters are really the biggest changes and aim to bring most of the teams down to a more level playing field.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/114uYajkKvA1Tq-ATbDDntP4fRWQfJQlp?usp=sharing
Xandyreoch



Joined: Jun 21, 2020

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 15:42 Reply with quote Back to top

GENERAL
The change to Kick you proposed makes it completely broken to just punt the ball back into the enemy half if you get it on defense.
Change to pro is pretty strong, but the idea of pro rerolling one dice only is not only very useful, but a little more fitting. Imagine an ogre gets his pro reroll, and wastes it on a loner.
Sure hands changes are making an already good skill much better, though probably doesn't change anything other than pass-farming between throwers.
Really like the Strip ball and Safe pair of hands interaction, that makes some sense.

AGILITY
Sidestep becomes broken with that, you give a player a very strong positional skill and prevent following on them... nuts
Feint seems really weird, an OP skill for the ball carrier if there is no drawback to failing the roll.
Why make sprint stronger, it makes is really powerful, not as important as block, but it still feels like a wrong decision to give a player the chance to move so much farther and so much safer.
Change to Surefeet is really specific, mainly important to OTTD teams that throw their player, maybe too strong for that, but I can't pass a judgement until It is used.
Arm Bar on Diving tackle I think is a cool idea, possibly making the skill too strong, but again, Armbar is weak on its own, getting a MB hit on someone with DT just feels a bit rough though, they already turn over
Change to diving catch intercepting passes is not needed, it is strong enough as a skill for the pieces that use it
Roll is overpowered, imagine going against goblins or elves, or almost any team, who get 11 attempts to dodge goblins into your cage to complete a chain-push, not caring how many fail at all

STRENGTH
why would juggernaut cancel block, not wrestle? Much easier to stay on your feet vs a charging man if you brace, rather than trying to wrestle them you just get hurt
(i'll be back to reply to more later, need to work now)
neuro_



Joined: Aug 15, 2020

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 22:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Xandyreoch wrote:

Change to pro is pretty strong, but the idea of pro rerolling one dice only is not only very useful, but a little more fitting. Imagine an ogre gets his pro reroll, and wastes it on a loner.

Sorry, bad wording- I meant for the Pro Reroll to be used as it is in BB2020 rules, just rolled for before taking any risks.
Xandyreoch wrote:
Sidestep becomes broken with that, you give a player a very strong positional skill and prevent following on them... nuts
Feint seems really weird, an OP skill for the ball carrier if there is no drawback to failing the roll.
Why make sprint stronger, it makes it really powerful, not as important as block, but it still feels like a wrong decision to give a player the chance to move so much farther and so much safer.
Change to diving catch intercepting passes is not needed, it is strong enough as a skill for the pieces that use it

I felt that all of these skills are far behind skills like Block or MB in value, even with the buffs, so they deserved some love Smile With regards to Sidestep, removing the Fend aspect doesn't really hurt it that much, however Grab is seen a lot more as it cancels Block. Feint hasn't caused any massive problems as of yet, but it is very powerful against cage-diving; maybe it could be changed so that it can't be used if carrying the ball?
Xandyreoch wrote:

Arm Bar on Diving tackle I think is a cool idea, possibly making the skill too strong, but again, Armbar is weak on its own, getting a MB hit on someone with DT just feels a bit rough though, they already turn over

Agreed. Armbar is a skill you would never choose to take, and DT rarely, so the combo should be fine. Slaan Blitzers might need a price hike though!
Xandyreoch wrote:

Roll is overpowered, imagine going against goblins or elves, or almost any team, who get 11 attempts to dodge goblins into your cage to complete a chain-push, not caring how many fail at all

Oh wow! I didn't think of a tactic like that lol- perhaps still a turnover but keep the protection aspect? More defensive/protective options in the game as a whole seems good.
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 01, 2022 - 18:23 Reply with quote Back to top

your version of Unchanneled Fury is basically Bone Head

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Cicuit



Joined: May 13, 2012

Post   Posted: Jul 02, 2022 - 21:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Roll seems very broken. Basically makes an invincible player that is only hurt by fouling or pow.

Brawler- RR any amount of Block dice that aren't "Attacker Down" in one block.
Basically throw dice until you get 1 or 6. In theory, you create an infinite loop here. Why any amount? Or do you mean a possibility to RR 2 or 3 die instead of just 1, and not just BD? Either way, seems way too powerful.

Running Pass: by "extra 2 MA", do you mean 2 steps, or MA+2 steps?

Hail Mary: what does "airborne" mean? What does it do exactly? I'm not sure...

Spiky: doesn't it feel a bit too much for a mark? If I play stunties, it's no fun to get AV tested just by standing around.

Well Hoof'd: so free GFI? can't wait to give it to my gutter runner!

Stab with Frenzy: how does this work exactly? Do you stab, push and stab? 2 stabs no pushing? Block, push and then stab?
Cicuit



Joined: May 13, 2012

Post   Posted: Jul 02, 2022 - 22:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Regarding the rosters, there is not much to say without playing, as some teams have a complete rework. One thing I wanted to mention is that I really don't like Necro. Instead of Ghouls, they were given ST1 70k "ball carriers". I don't think there is a more overpriced positional in the game.
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 02, 2022 - 23:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Who again is playing by these rules? Is this a custom league?

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