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Jan-Erik



Joined: Apr 17, 2011

Post   Posted: May 26, 2024 - 15:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
complete agreement on the core rules changes there Jan, except the extreme heat rule. That shouldnt have a Khemri Caveat, but the rule does need to be reworked.
The roster ideas are more hit and miss

I'm suprised you dont have anything about passing there


Passing is such a marginal part of the game that it means nothing to me, I don't really care about wildly inaccurate at all. If you pass more than one time on average per game you probably need to reconsider your gameplan. Overall there's way more pressing issues than some last resort stuff.

Quote:
FWIW, I really like multi-rerolls. It's not more or less strategy, just different.


It allows way more stupid plays to succeed and takes away from planning and execution in favor of brute forcing with luck.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: May 26, 2024 - 18:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Jan-Erik wrote:

Quote:
FWIW, I really like multi-rerolls. It's not more or less strategy, just different.


It allows way more stupid plays to succeed and takes away from planning and execution in favor of brute forcing with luck.


This ^ and makes TTM far too reliable

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 26, 2024 - 18:27 Reply with quote Back to top

And it boosts the 1TTD and the running game too.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: May 26, 2024 - 19:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, but getting rid of MA10 really helps with this. I do agree TTM is a little too easy, but now running people out of their RR is a lot more fun. Also, it allows more variety in coaching: there's no longer a dominant strategy for number of rerolls for a lot of teams that used to have one.

I think the real problem with OTS and the running game is how easy it is to gamble on stats.

What if improvements were on a table, and you could buy a d6, d8, or d16 on the table (different prices) to see what your options were? With d6 or d8, you could also pay less for random, which would be lowered in price relative to chosen but more than half TV. You could even allow people to pay half again for a reroll if they don't like the first result (which you could also limit to the d6 or d8, if a reroll on the d16 is too much).

1-5: primary (15k/10k).
6-8: primary (15k/10k) or secondary (30k/20k).
9-10: primary, MA (20k) or AV (10k).
11: primary, secondary, MA, or AV.
12: primary, secondary, MA, or PA (15k).
13: primary, secondary, PA (15k) or AV.
14: primary, secondary,AG (30k) or PA.
15: primary, secondary, AG, PA, or ST (60k).
16: MA, ST, AG, PA, or AV.

1st skill: 6, 8, or 16 SPP. 3 or 5 SPP for random.
2nd: 9, 12, 24, or 5 or 8 for random.
3rd: 12, 16, 30, or 8 or 12 for random.
4th: 16, 20, 36, or 10 or 14 for random.
Etc.

Making TTM a little harder (only a little, mind) is trivial.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 26, 2024 - 19:43 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
Yeah, but getting rid of MA10 really helps with this.

It's actually quite possible to 1TTD even with MA 8, Side Step and/or Sprint (no stat boost required) or with MA 9 and Side Step.
Multi rr helps slow players to keep up the pace with fast players.
Elves, for example, rely on speed to stay out of trouble, if an Orc team can just spam rushes to reposition on a crucial turn the multi rr really is bad for the positioning game.
That gets even worse with hybrid teams, which are faster and quite bashy.

With 1 rr per turn again some odd turns could be ruined by a first double skull, rr, then another double skull later, but this is a rare situation.
After 2310 BB2020 games I think that multi rr cons outweigh the pros.
Maybe multi rr could be a special rule for Stunty teams (maybe 2 rrs per turn, rather than full multi rr), but for sure I don't like it for tier 1 and 2 teams.
At first I had mixed feelings about multi rr when it was announced, but now I have a strong opinion against it.
realmalteser2



Joined: Mar 06, 2015

Post   Posted: May 26, 2024 - 20:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Remove swarming
Joost



Joined: Mar 17, 2014

Post   Posted: May 26, 2024 - 21:40 Reply with quote Back to top

I’m with Matt on this one. I miss the excitement you’d get for the opponent’s rest of turn after the rr was used!
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: May 26, 2024 - 23:49 Reply with quote Back to top

multi RR was never even meant to be a rule change. they just messed up when writting the rulebook and doubled down....

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: May 26, 2024 - 23:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, but any time there's one right way, that's ... bad design. It's boring. "Of course you want 3 RR; you can make do on 2, but unless you're [specific roster] 4 is insanity," that basically shuts off a whole avenue of gaming.

What if multiple rushes came with a cumulative penalty (2+/3+ assuming nice weather, sober, no moles), and Sprint negated a penalty on each rush (2+/2+/3+)? That would have a similar effect on OTS and multiple Rushes without eliminating the decision point.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 27, 2024 - 00:01 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd like Rushes with cumulative modifier and 1 rr per turn.
Sure Feet could add a +1 to Rush roll (to represent the higher stability of the player).
The skill says it.

Sprint suggest to me that a player is able to perform sudden bursts of speed, but that doesn't mean that they are safer (due to the higher speed and being less careful when moving). Sprint in my opinion should not add a +1 to Rush rolls.

Anyway, the idea is that not-specialized players should risk more when trying to rush.
Only the dedicated rushers with Sure Feet should be able to move the extra squares more safely.

So, in case of a player with Sure Feet and Sprint, the Rush rolls would be 2+, 2+, 3+.
A player with Sprint would Rush on 2+, 3+, 4+, instead.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: May 27, 2024 - 00:15 Reply with quote Back to top

an extra Rush at -2 is not worthy of a skill.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 27, 2024 - 00:23 Reply with quote Back to top

If you can take Sure Feet on the same player I think it's worth it (if a player has Sprint, likely he will have A access).
If that extra square can make the player score a 1TTD (or just score on the last turn) it's worth it.
Assuming the player has Sprint and no Sure Feet, it's better to be able to score with a third rush on a 4+ than not scoring at all.
Later, Sure Feet would fix that (although I would take on a player first Sure Feet, then Sprint, of course).
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: May 27, 2024 - 01:43 Reply with quote Back to top

... hmmm... omg, this will not go over well. But it would solve a lot of issues.

28x15.

Yes, it hurts. But it would solve so many problems. Hurry-ups with bash would become a lot harder, and OTS would too, but a takeaway stall would be a little bit easier to make up for it with elf squads. The number of touchbacks would diminish, and without a single center square, every kick would lead to an actual (if minor) decision, whether because of Kick or independently. Deep kicks would also be more viable, making Kick on bash teams more interesting.

That's not a position, just an idea. One that GW would love because it would sell sooo much cardstock. I'm almost sorry I said it. But not really.

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Rawlf



Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Post   Posted: May 27, 2024 - 10:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I hope a new ruleset would repeat the two things I liked about BB2020. One, that they change stuff at all and keep it interesting so we dont become a group of jaded old groignards more than we do anyway. Two, that they stay away from the core mechanics, ie pitch size, movement, Tzs, blocking, timing and turns etc. BB stays playable with that even if they mess up other mechanics like skills etc like they always do in some aspects.

Also.
- Improve passing. Bring auto success for throwers on quick passes like on handoffs. Repair WI.
- Count passing range like movement. (Insert shocked-guy-on-dancefloor meme that reads 'Just realized – Passing range is a circle. Movement range is a square'.)
- Delete Interceptions. 2+ pages of rules that are relevant every 20 games? Failure. Replace with 'if target fails to catch, an adjacent opponent may try to catch. Call it INT on success, otherwise bounce. Maybe oppo attempts catch first with pass block idk.
- Now finally bin the ruler, yay.
- Bring risk to the running game. Every movement with ball in hand counts as a rush, ie you roll for it and you can only go for one less extra tile. Apply -1 to all dodges with ball in hand, except if dodger is stunty.
- Put more items on the roster. Bribes (at half cost compared to inducement bribe), Chef (same). Assistant coach for 50k gives d3 chosen primaries at start of match. Cheerleaders for 50k give d3 pro at start of match. Extra armoury for 50k gives d3 +av. All 0-1 or better yet varying amounts and prices with roster.
- Make apo work. 2+ would be fine by me. Give multiple (0-x) apos at varying prices (40k-80k) depending on rosters. Like 0-3 at 40k for EU and 0-1 at 70k for Orcs or something.
- Increase on-pitch attrition. Not one-dimensionally like with clawpomb but multiple different ways to bring pain. Fouling is okay atm, IGMEOY prefered. Bring some extra stuff like harder hitting Big Guys or +1 to av roll on clean POW. Add a niggling injury for every skill-up after the first one (ageing light). Find more mechanics that increase the damage so you get a better balance and more coach control with better apos both in terms of during the match as well as in terms of team building. So that perpetual play becomes viable.
- Create a gold economy. Atm, gold is irrelevant after 0-3 games. Failure. Bring back paying extra for inducements from your treasure chest, which was great and should have never been rolled back. Save on easy games, splash of important ones.
- Delete prayers, make new. Make them useful for the match like extra skills, RRs, apos and such and delete all extra spp and such nonsense. Prayers gained through CTV gap are chosen, not randomized. There you go, overdogging balanced.
- More different wizards, amounts and prizes possibly varying with rosters. Bring back the old sideline lightning wiz in some form, such a great mechanic.
- KO events must be coachable, like blitz!, just set up properly. So Argue with ref must go, make it old throw a rock instead, but random a target in the WZ (so you can install a lightning rod lino). Noone in WZ? Random any player then or even better convert to blitz!
- Delete all nonsense about Skills sometimes work and sometimes not.
- Delete Snotlings.
- In general, make fewer more meaningful skills. Delete unneccessary BS like fumblerooskie.
- Award 2 MVPs, one chosen, one random.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 27, 2024 - 11:33 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
... hmmm... omg, this will not go over well. But it would solve a lot of issues.

28x15.

Yes, it hurts. But it would solve so many problems.

In my house rules I wrote the same idea (I didn't want to spam this thread with them, this is why I refrained from posting them all here):

- Pitch dimensions: 28 x 15 squares instead of 26 x 15. End Zone dimensions: 15 x 1 squares. Touchback if the ball lands on End Zone at Kick-Off.

- Quick Snap: players can't trespass the pitch's half line.

1TTD would be harder with those changes and 1 rr per turn.

As an aside, I'd like to try a Half lasting 7 turns, instead of 8.
It may seems a minor change but that and the slightly longer pitch (and harder Rushes) would make the drives more focussed on moving the ball, rather than plodding fishing for Casualties and stalling. The passing game would be encouraged as well (if caging is not possible, then you are forced to try a pass).
Most of times 8 turns are not necessary and turn the drive into a boring static stalling.
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